I have two questions about the debris, and specifically about those in the debris area who are trying to collect the debris for themselves and/or trying to sell it.
Is this debris really that dangerous? There are a lot of warnings to avoid this stuff at all costs because of health risks and such. Is NASA just trying to keep people away from the debris here, or are there legit risks?
What will happen to those caught taking this stuff? Fine? Jail time? Would this be a misdemeanor or a felony? Maybe NASA would just take the stuff away? I personally think these people should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but what is that extent?
I was on the Space Shuttle Support Team in the '80s. I’ve been at Edwards when Shuttles have landed. I noted that it took a long time before the crew were allowed to leave the spacecraft. The reason for this is that it was or may have been venting dangerous vapours. There was a hydrazine spill in a hangar less than a mile from where I worked. They evacuated the area. So yes, there are potentially lethal substances on a spacecraft. Would they have survived break-up and re-entry? I wouldn’t go near the debris without a respirator unless I was assured there was no danger.
You could be charged with theft of Federal property. You could be charged with interfering with an investigation (you never know what bit, no matter how small, might be crucial to the investigation). You would be arrested and charged. Felony, or misdemeanor? I don’t know. But you will undoubtedly be prosecuted.
NASA says it would be treated as theft of government property. That falls under 18 USC 641, which says it is up to 10 years in prison if the value is over $1000, and up to 1 year otherwise.
What Johnny LA said is correct - I doubt that any hydrazine or other toxic propellants survived the re-entry.
However, the problem lies more with the composite materials used in the tiles and leading edges of the wings. When composite materials break up they can separate into some very, very small particles. These particles can be inhaled and cause extreme irritation and worse in your lungs, not to mention getting something in your eye. This is true with any aircraft that uses composite materials (ie F-117, Boeing 777). It’s best to stay clear, and if you must go near such debris use a respirator. I imagine that the TV news agencies are going for the simpler “nasty chemical” explanation for the masses, but whatever keeps people away should work!
Re the penalty for tampering with the stuff, a local station here in DFW quoted it as a felony with up to $25,000 fine, but again, that’s just what the talking head said!
I’d say it’s legit. For instance, when the shuttle lands, if there’s not a good breeze blowing, they have to set up a massive fan upwind of the shuttle to keep toxic gases from pooling around it, and only a half-hour to an hour later, IIRC, after the shuttle has cooled down and stopped venting these gases, can anyone approach it.
Dimethyl Hydrazine is some nasty, evil stuff. Toxic and corrosive. But it’s also a volitile fuel, and probably didn’t make it to the ground in any significant amount.
The warnings are really just “catch alls”. They don’t know what made it to the ground and in what shape, so the best thing is to warn people away from all of it.
Besides toxic fuels, there’s waste product containers, small amounts of radioisotopes (used in things like sensors and small battery-like power supplies) and the somewhat less likely possibility of “classified” hardware surviving. There could be small tanks of pressurized gasses (notably oxygen, most likely) that, without their proper safeguards, like temperature controls or pressure regulation, could warm up and spontaneously explode. There could be reactive metals or even hydrogen venting from fuel cell remnants…
The Orbiter is, as someone said, the most complex piece of hardware on Earth. Tens of millions of components, thousands of systems and subsystems, chock full of hundreds of chemicals, alloys and composites. Pulverize it and spread it over 160 miles of Texas and you’re awful close to a Superfund Site level of cleanup. Depending on what makes it to the ground.
Personally, I hope whoever stuck a chunk on Ebay gets at least six months in jail, and they publicise the heck out of that fact.
hobbes730: Right. The toxic fumes dissipate. I should have said that I wouldn’t go near a piece unless I had a respirator if I thought it looked like a piece of a fuel tank. Structures are different for fuel tanks and airframes, and they are often easily differentiated. On the other hand, sometimes they’re not easily differentiated. When in doubt, lean toward safety.
And then there’s Doc Nickel’s comments. I think that most of the toxic stuff would probably no longer be dangerous after a little while. But then you have radioactive debris. I have a military-issue watch that has a nuclear trefoil on it and an admonishment to “DISPOSE OF: RAD WASTE”.
It’s probably safe to handle most of the debris, but in Doc Nickel’s scenario you don’t know what got where.
Of course the primary reason to keep people from touching the debris is to preserve it for examination.
CNN is reporting that searchers have found some human remains, thought to have been one of the crew: Remains thought to be from Columbia crew. I find that amazing - given the height and the heat, I wouldn’t have thought anything organic would have survived.
Well, “organic materials” duct-taped to the exterior of the craft wouldn’t survive, no, but what we’re talking about was in the interior, surrounded by considerable structure and mass. Organic material survives in incoming meteors fairly often, don’t see why this would much different… except, of course, these “organic remains” have a heck of a psychological and emotional impact
I heard something in passing on the news last night about some people in Texas being hospitalized after contact with the debris, apparently some respiratory problem… but can’t find anything about it today.
Who knows what did and didn’t survive? I’m with the “don’t take chances” crowd. A bad crash on the freeway between two cars can be hazardous to approach, much less a wrecked spaceship. I’d be perfectly happy to notice the debris over there somewhere, call the authorities, and let them take care of it.
People have been posting auctions of purported shuttle debris on eBay since about an hour after the tragedy. eBay takes them down as fast as they go up, and one would hope that the individuals involved are reported to the authorities for prosecution. Here is a cached copy of one of these auctions, which shows how callous and greedy some people can be. Let’s hope they get what they deserve.
Yep, sure are alot of auctions, mostly with buyitnow, so they can get away with it. But nasa needs all the parts of the shuttle for their investigation.
I really doubt they actually have pieces of debris. The one picture of debris in the cached auction was the same piece I saw a NASA official picking up on the news.
I wonder if the “toxic” warnings are about lawsuits. If someone gets powdered cadmium all over their hand and then eats a hot dog, they can sue the US government. But maybe not if lots of scary warnings were broadcast.
“Abrasive” propellants? Liquid nitrogen forming nitrous oxides? No. At least the warning about hydrazine is genuine. You can die of liver damage weeks after breathing some hydrazine fumes.