Fan voting for the Pro Bowl only accounts for 1/3 of the vote “total” (the other two-thirds are determined by fellow players and coaches). And, the fan vote is a relatively recent phenomenon for the Pro Bowl; before 1995, only players and coaches voted.
Your snark does nothing to overshadow the fact that your post makes no sense.
Yes, Polamalu may very well be the MVP of the Steelers and much of their issues on defense can be attributed to his absence. But nothing about that argument has anything to do with him belonging in the Pro Bowl. You said you “understand” his omission like it’s somehow up for debate. There is no case for Polamalu being a Pro Bowler, period, full stop.
Agreed. It’s not the MVP Bowl, it’s the Pro Bowl. The Pro Bowl is about performance on the field, at least in concept. When you go down to injury and your team tanks because of it, that’s pretty much the definition of who shouldn’t be going to the Pro Bowl. Team MVP absolutely; that’s almost a no-brainer. But the fact that you didn’t help your team is the best reason possible to keep someone out of the Pro Bowl.
OK, I am going to waste my time and make a case for the Bengals CB’s Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall versus the guys that did make it, Darrel Revis, Nnamdi Asomugha and Champ Bailey. The Probowl is a popularity contest (which is strange given the Randy Moss exclusion, IMO), nothing more or less.
Johnathan Joseph: 66 tackles, no sacks, 1 forced fumble, 6 INT’s
Leon Hall: 67 tackles, no sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 6 INT’s
Darrel Revis (whom is deserving, IMO): 54 tackles, no sacks, no forced fumbles, 6 INT’s
Champ Bailey: 72 tackles, no sacks, 1 forced fumble, 3 INT’s
Nnamdi Asomugha: 34 tackles, no sacks, no forced fumbles, ONE interception. ONE!!
I do realize that these stats don’t include other things for DB’s, like passes defended, or just the sheer presence of a shutdown corner resulting in a lack of stats, or even yards or TD’s given up attributed to these players.
But c’mon, man.
Since the offensive lines are pretty much always completely wrong, anyone want to try to nominate a legitimate O-Line for the AFC and NFC? I know for sure that Gurode and Peters don’t belong on the NFC team.
I’m not too familiar with the O-Lines of teams other than the Eagles, so I can only add that Peters has been too inconsistent to have been voted in on merit. Herremans is probably the best O-Lineman the Eagles have.
As for the other players, Eagles’ DT Mike Patterson deserved a spot on the team, but it’s made up for with Leonard Weaver getting his due. DeSean Jackson is the first player to ever be voted in as a WR and a KR, which is deserved and excellent. Celek probably got cheated, but not alarmingly so. Good to see Trent Cole get some love, too.
Charles Tillman: 77 tackles, no sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 2 INTs, 1 TD
You don’t honestly think these stats mean anything do you?
I would say that’s the case with Asomugha. He and Revis looked solid to me. I’ve always been a Champ Bailey defender but both Bengals corners have been very solid this year. I wouldn’t have complained if either one made it. Not both maybe, but one or the other should be there I think.
Good idea. The O-line gets in more on rep than anyone but I’m in the same boat. I only know Steelers guys for the most part. When I made my vote I voted for two guys: the first was Joe Thomas from the Browns because of the way he handles James Harrison when they play us. He does a better job than anyone and no I don’t accuse him of holding all the time. 
The other guy I voted for is Jeff Faine from Tampa Bay. I never saw one TB game this year so I don’t actually know what kind of season Faine has this year (hopefully RNATB can fill me in) but he has impressed me for a while. He’s everything you want in an NFL centre.
Of course. Also remember what that means, which is that tackles are bad because you let the guy catch the ball. The more tackles your DBs have the worse it is. Forced Fumbles are meaningless; might as well include safeties. And sacks for a DB are as relevant as passes are for running backs. (Passes, not receptions.)
Just to throw it out there, according to pro-football-reference.com here are the passes defensed numbers:
31 Darrelle Revis
24 Leon Hall
20 Johnathan Joseph
13 Champ Bailey
4 Nnamdi Asomugha
Okay, 4?! Asomugha’s career high is 19, and he’s only had double digits twice in his seven year career. I recognize that you don’t throw at a shutdown corner, but geez, those numbers seem super low.
For context, here are the league highs in passes defensed since realignment:
2008: 24
2007: 21
2006: 24
2005: 27
2004: 23
2003: 23
2002: 24
Your boys definitely deserved a spot, IMO, though both behind Revis. 31? Wow.
Maybe the best metric for CB1s is the average WR1 yardage against?
I forget who their other corners are and I’m too lazy to look it up but it might be similar to the situation Green Bay had when Ahmad Carroll was opposite Al Harris. Why test Harris when you can throw worry-free to Carroll’s side all day? When a team has two strong corners you have to throw near one of them.
I’m sorry, I’m a Giants fan. As far as I know, when facing the Packers you throw directly at Harris all day long and watch Plaxico catch a million passes for a bazillion yards. heh.
You know what pisses me off most about this list? The fullbacks are voted for based on how much action they got in at RB (tailback). Mcclain is nothing special as a fullback, but last year due to injuries, he SWITCHED POSITION to running back, at which point he got a decent amount of yards and TDs. So now he’s basically being voted into one position for his play at another position.
It’s like if a backup offensive linemen came in as a tackle eligible on goal line plays, and they threw to him once or twice, and the voting public says “this o-lineman has a touchdown! none of the other ones have a touchdown! gotta vote for him!”
I don’t know if the same is true for Weaver, who I don’t see much. He may be a legitimately deserving fullback, but given that his name is most known for playing as a tailback and making some plays, I suspect the same may be true.
It’s a fucking travesty too because Lawrence Vickers is the best fullback I’ve ever seen. He’s the prototype - strong, mean, fast, and just demolishes people. If you look at some highlights for Jerome Harrison’s 280 yard rushing day, watch Vickers break the linebacker in half as Harrison follows him through. But I guess it’s too hard to pick the guy who’s actually extremely dominant at his position, that requires paying attention and shit, and it’s easier just to pick the guy who has stats playing a different position whose name you’ve heard of.
Fucking pro bowl bullshit.
Don’t tackles also mean run support? Both Bengals corners are very good at reading a running play and coming up to make the tackle. It doesn’t always mean “your guy” caught a pass…
I think that’s the closest you’re liable to get, but it’s important to know if the DB plays in a scheme where he swaps sides of the field or not and what percentage of zone they play to man-to-man.
Really, the guys with access to the coaches tape and can evaluate play-by-play are the only ones who can know. Stats Inc and Elias probably do yardage allowed versus stats by coverage, but us normal people aren;t privy to it.
I think the Bengals corners probably split votes, and got screwed because of it. Both are very good and together they’re certainly the best tandem in the league. Playing for the Bengals probably didn’t help, though–they don’t get much attention or nationally televised games.
McKinnie?! Seriously?! You’ve got to be kidding. There’s how many good guys that play his position out there and they select McKinnie? What?! Christ, he’s terrible. Have they even watched his play? He’s awful. I can’t wait until the Vikings can his ass. The man’s a sieve.
Doors, I know you like the Steelers. Good for you. But isn’t Polamalu injured anyway? So he wouldn’t even be able to play, right? Yeah, bad call. In that spirit, I’ll nominate E.J. Henderson, who’s clearly a cornerstone of the Vikings secondary, which has badly stumbled since he’s been out. No matter his broken leg, hey?
Weaver got in for his running and his pass catching, both of which are exceptional for a fullback. He’s probably just average in run blocking from what I’ve seen, but I haven’t made it a point to watch him run block so I can’t really say. I wish I could find numbers on it, but I have a suspicion the Eagles don’t run a lot of 2-back sets either.
Matt Maiocco says Frank Gore is first alternate at NFC RB. I can’t find a list of alternates outside of his list of 49ers, though.
Fullbacks are tough to quantify. Mike Alstott got in for years by being a good power back, not a normal blocking fullback.
Asomugha is getting by this year on his reputation, he was not even close to being the best cover corner in the league this year. Here is how the opposing WRs faired this season against Asomugha and Revis.
Nnamdi Asomugha
Vincent Jackson.........5/56/1
Dwayne Bowe.............5/56/1
Brandon Marshall........5/67/1
Andre Johnson...........2/66/0
Steve Smith (NYG).......3/70/0
DeSean Jackson..........6/94/0
David Clowney...........4/79/1 (not sure if he was on Clowney in this game)
Vincent Jackson.........8/103/1
Dwayne Bowe.............6/91/0
Chad Ochocinco..........4/67/0
Miles Austin............7/145/1
Santonio Holmes.........8/149/1
Santana Moss............4/58/0
Brandon Marshall........7/73/1
Mohammed Massaquoi......3/61/1
Darrelle Revis
Andre Johnson...................4/35/0
Randy Moss......................4/24/0
Nate Washington - Kenny Britt...2/25/1 - 4/59/0 (not covering Washington on his TD)
Marques Colston.................2/33/0
Ted Ginn........................2/57/1 (got greedy on this TD and should not have been beaten by Ginn)
Terrell Owens...................3/13/0
Darrius Heyward-Bey.............2/28/0
Davone Bess.....................4/18/0
Mike Sims-Walker................3/49/1 (missed tackle at the 18 yard line)
Randy Moss......................5/34/1 (expecting the fade and Moss tricked him with a slant, good play)
Steve Smith (Car)...............1/5/0
Terrell Owens...................3/31/0
Antonio Bryant - Brian Clark....3/20/0 - 2/22/0
Roddy White.....................4/33/0
Reggie Wayne....................3/33/0
So ONE guy managed 50+ yards on Revis, and if anyone remembers that Jets/Dolphins Monday night game, it was pretty flukey.
I need to figure out why Brady made it over Schaub.
OK, I figured it out. It’s Tom Brady, he has an automatic Pro Bowl invite, apparently.
Yeah, pretty much. Their stats are almost identical, though, so I can’t muster up too much outrage over going with reputation to break a tie. The only stat where I could find a difference between them is sacks, where Schaub let up a large percentage more despite neither being sacked very much at all. (24 for Shaub, 15 for Brady.) Either one would be the starter for the NFC team.
Fair point, but I guess that means the tackle stat is totally useless. Each individual tackle could be good, or could be bad; we just can’t know without going through the tape manually.
This would be a good stat for FO to track. “Tackles in run support” vs “tackles in pass coverage.” Hey VarlosZ, get them on that, wouldja? heh.