So basically Syria is the next Libya. There’s a civil war forming there, and it isn’t very civil. The Syrian government has fired upon Syrian protestors and it’s getting bloodier by the hour. What do you think will happen in Syria? Will this spark a civil war? Who do you support, the government or the protestors? Do you think the United States should intervene, like we did with Libya, and if so, how should we intervene? If you want, please try to keep all discussions and news articles about the Syrian protests in this thread.
Syria sends army reinforcements into Deraa
Other countries are playing leading roles in the air strikes in Libya. The U.S. isn’t going in whole hog to overthrow Gadhafi; basically just supporting the rebels who are fighting to oust him. We should by all means support Syrian rebels as well in ending another dictatorship. An autocratic government that is not wanted and not elected by its people is invalid and should be terminated. This Arab spring and spread of democracy is a much needed step in the evolution of world harmony.
I completely disagree. The Ba’ath Party has, by and large, been a positive influence on Syria. The fact that it does not pander to Western ideals of mob-rule (or “representative democracy,” as you may prefer to call it) does not mean that the US or anyone else should start slaughtering these people as well. Syria should be left alone to sort its issues out on its own.
Interestingly, Russia apparently had enough of Western shenanigans in Libya, and has absolutely refused to allow a draft anti-Syrian resolution to get off the ground:
Without such a resolution, any foreign intervention would be a grave international crime.
Here is what you’re in favor of if you’re supporting the Syrian dictator:
Interesting that a particular poster condemns the US and NATO as having some kind of religious hatred against Islam, yet it’s a Muslim country’s Muslim dictator’s Muslim military and Muslim police force destroying Muslim houses of worship.
And using fucking Muslim snipers against its innocent Muslim population. Snipers!
Commissar has previously expressed views in favor of brutal dictatorship so I’m not really surprised.
I think tomorrow’s “Day of Rage” is going to be the tipping point one way or the other - if enough people come out in force there’s going to be slaughter but they could still prevail.
Also, the Syrian ambassador has now been “dis-invited” from the Royal Wedding tomorrow. That’s gotta sting.
There’s been an article floating about CNN’s website, the headline of which read something like “Why Aren’t We Attacking Syria Instead Of Lebanon”. I didn’t read it, but I’d like to now. I can’t imagine the US getting involved in yet another conflict.
It is worth noting that, were I to post an article hostile to the US and purporting to base its criticism on anonymous “reliable sources,” I would hear no end to the complaining about it from you, my friend.
But setting that point aside, your argument is still meaningless and entirely devoid of logic. Any government can be attacked in this manner, as long as the attacker is willing to follow your lead of only highly-selective facts. Let’s try it now:
"Here is what you’re in favor of if you’re supporting the brutal US regime: You are supporting the only nation in the history of humanity to use nuclear weapons against other humans. You are supporting a nation that starts illegal wars of aggression in the Middle East with abandon. You are supporting a nation that is, as we speak, using remote-controlled planes to slaughter civilians in Libya. What kind of monster are you if you can support something like that?”
Hey, it works. From now on, all nations should be given the Monty treatment.
Well, sure, we have Commissar’s standard nonsense about wars of aggression (remember, he denies that you can state that someone is a war crime without a verdict, even if you prove that it is a war crime, but he likes to claim things are wars of aggression without any support because… hey look over there!) Folks might even begin to wonder why the standards seem to change so rapidly when the subject is something that might annoy westerners.
But the Assad regime isn’t Muslim, and Syria really isn’t either. Syria and its ruling regime are, for all practical purposes, secular. So what we have are its secular rulers murdering its Muslim populace. In fact, the Assad regime perpetrated the single worst organized act of mass murder against a Muslim civilian population in modern history. But, of course, as Commissar has standards that seem to change when the argument has the potential to annoy people, that’s okay because Assad is a brutal tyrant. But NATO nations trying to save Muslim civilians? Obviously they’re crusaders.
Obviously.
Like how this Day of Rage was so successful?
Attacking? How?
nnononononononononono
Do you know who is funding the Syrian rebels? Lebanon. Jordan. Iraq. Do you know who probably supports the current Syrian regime? Iran.
We shouldn’t be supporting the Libyan rebels either. Do you know who supports them? Iran. Do you know who supports Ghadafi? Iran. Who is going to run Libya (or a split Libya)? Who is the face of Libya?
Who isn’t so happy about these mid east protests? China and Russia.
Your statement, “An autocratic government that **is not wanted **and not elected by its people is invalid and should be terminated,” only matters if it comes from the people. But that only works if you have a plan. Lighting yourself on fire is not a plan. That shit is a mess.
You can’t “spread democracy”. That is theoretically impossible. Democracy happens by goodwill and faith of a new government and culture of a people. Do you really think a democracy could come out of Syria anytime soon? Or Libya?
Ugh. It’s either another cold war or a real one. It’s like China & Iran v. NATO fighting over political control of unstable countries.
edit: Look at Egypt’s new democracy. What a joke.
Don’t forget their special hatred of Kurds.
Hatred of Kurds isn’t really all that special, though.
I’m not your friend. My friends have a much more than passing acquaintance with facts.
You wouldn’t happen to have any proof that I would be complaining about something posted from reliable sources, would you?
Didn’t think so.
My lead? You wouldn’t happen to have any evidence that I’m doing that, would you? Didn’t think so.
Again, didn’t think you had anything even resembling a fact for your tirades and pretenses.
You misspelled Commissar (link to Pit Thread).
I had heard or read that the Syrian government brought in specialists from Iran to help them quell the riots, but it doesn’t seem to be working as well for them as it has for the Iranians.
It’s hard to say, but whatever happens it won’t be good. If Syria goes down or becomes like Libya then it will affect the entire region. Much more than Egypt or Libya has.
It seems to be right on the verge of going that way.
Probably the protesters more than the government, though my ‘support’ is rather nebulous at this point, as it is for the various factions in Libya. I think the government in Syria is a tyrannic and authoritarian monster, but who knows whether anything that emerges from an all out civil war would be any better? Still, I can certainly understand and sympathize with the people who have to live under the crushing weight of that government…it’s not hard to see why many of the authoritarian governments in the ME are facing near universal unrest at this point.
No…I don’t think we should intervene (nor do I think we will in this case, regardless). Of course, I didn’t think we should have intervened in Libya either, so that doesn’t really say much. It’s hard to see a series of events that would bring the US into direct intervention in Syria, though, especially not when we are even quasi-involved in what’s happening in Libya (it’s mostly a NATO show at this point). I seriously doubt that the Arab League or anyone else involved is going to request US or NATO intervention (I’m not sure NATO would have any grounds to stand on to intervene in Syria…I think even their grounds for intervening in Libya were pretty tenuous).
-XT
Who exactly are the sides in Syria, other than “The Assad Regime vs. The People”? Are there any notable ethnic or religious or cultural or class or regional or ideological conflicts or divisions?
And, does anyone outside the government really believe, any more (if ever they did), in Ba’athism as such, as an ideology?
I see on this map of Kurdistan (defining same as Kurdish-majority areas) that in Syria it includes only this little wedge in the northeast corner of the country and an even littler half-moon on the northern border. If those bits were to be separated and made part of an independent Kurdistan or something, would the average Syrian resent the loss of territory too terribly?
