Public art projects, land trusts, and gardens? None of that really existed before Bernie invented them?
Are you really claiming that any of that was *ever *seen as “far-left radical” and not just ordinary good governance? It’s never a given in any administration, granted, but … no.
Well, when you boil down a set of complex government policies into simple nouns that fit neatly into your pre-conceived views of the world, with all the nuance and depth of a bumper sticker… yea, I guess it does sound simple.
We don’t have the highest standard of living the world for our poorest citizens (though it is assuredly higher for those citizens than some progressives admit). France repeatedly tops a ranking of countries for quality of life:
You presumably prefer to measure a country’s wealth based on something like per capita GDP. I prefer to set things up in a way that lowers that number, along with a “ceiling” for wealth, but which raises the “floor” for the most disadvantaged among us. Neither approach can be empirically proven to be “right” or “wrong”; they are simply preferences. And we use elections to seek to implement our respective preferences.
Thank you, Shodan. That was short, but…pointless. :rolleyes:
HAHAHAHAHA! ::wipes tears:: Hoo boy, I needed a good laugh this morning; thanks for that. The deeply loathed and despised Hillary Clinton getting anything done is just too hilarious for words. The woman wouldn’t be able to say “good morning” without hearings and impeachment votes. Look, I had to abandon the notion that the Barack Obama who had such a stellar reputation for working with Republicans and getting their support to pass major legislation while in Illinois and the U.S. Senate was incapable of getting through to these traitorous, obstructionist, evil Republicans once he became president. I suggest you do the same as regards Hillary, because that’s just blindingly absurd on its face.
It’s called “getting to the point” (other than the “pre-conceived” part). It’s generally considered a good thing.
“Simple” is not quite the right word. “Insubstantial” is closer.
As a lifelong Democrat, I sure wish more of my fellow Democrats could pick their horse in the primary season without demonizing the others, and then unite in the general election. I plan (as of now) to vote for Hillary in the primary, but I don’t have an unkind word to say about Bernie and will happily support him if he wins more delegates. This unhinged ranting against Hillary Clinton by Democrats is way OTT and it really bothers me.
Having been taught the error of my ways - sort of - I want to issue a general ‘calm the hell down’ to everyone in this thread.
I realize that emotions run high during elections, especially high stakes ones, but it’s important that those emotions be divorced from the personal on the SDMB. So let’s all behave like adults and we can move through the next 16 months (!!!) with flair, grace and elan.
DUDE, that was not demonization of HILLARY, but of the fucking hateful REPUBLICANS.
If you or anyone else thinks she has a snowball’s chance in Hell of accomplishing diddly squat with those motherfuckers, who despise her more deeply than they do even Obama, y’all have not been paying attention.
I would have thought that the lesson to draw from Obama’s experience is that it doesn’t really matter how the GOP leaders or voters feel about you personally. Obama was pretty popular when McConnell decided to go for the scorched earth approach, wasn’t he?
Why do you think Sanders would fare better than Clinton (or Obama) on that front?
Most of us made fun of Sarah Palin’s supporters when they touted her stint as mayor as meaning, well anything.
It was justified.
It also has nothing to do with what I posted.
He was a great mayor. He was an adequate Congresscritter, hell call him a good one. In Congress (House mostly then Senate for the last 4) for now 24 years. 24 years. During that time he has added a few good resolutions and such. Did a great job recently with VA health care system reform. Has failed to accomplish much as an advocate for action to address our crumbling infrastructure, to get us to take meaningful action on Climate Change and building up renewable energy. I can find oodles of bill he sponsored and cosponsored that got introduced. A couple that passed Senate. How many over 24 years that became law?
Given that most of America agrees with most of his stated positions, why not a lot more to show for it?
“Socialist” is not not so awful in reality, just as a matter of political reality.
The circumstance of mayor ≠ the circumstance of President or of being a Congresscritter. He got his major accomplishment, VA health system reform, done not by a revolution but negotiating a compromise after the first attempt failed.
To the degree that in reality as a Congresscritter he’s been less a revolutionist than mostly someone who has tilted at windmills, done some decent basic work, and negotiated and compromised through one major accomplishment, he is fine.
I don’t mind some idealist windmill tilting, it can inspire, so long as it is matched with some real world pragmatic work which is grounded in negotiation and compromise.
Calls for revolution can count me out.
Giving the Presidency to the GOP and thus the Far Right agenda unfettered free rein … gives me shivers.
Despite that in general I refrain from responding to posts that start as above … or “BWAHAHA” for that matter, the point still deserves a response, no great revelation to anyone this concept either:
Those who do not like you and who you do not like are precisely the people you most need to negotiate and compromise with.
And the parties that most need to be negotiated with are not GOP politicians, but their masters: Hillary is better prepared to negotiate them to terms.
Because apparently his campaign has some kind of plan to get down-ticket progressives on the ballots so he can build a team that can defeat them. I dunno what it is; they haven’t revealed it yet. And for all I know it may not work either. But at least he gets it, that it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than him alone to take on challenges this enormous. I don’t believe Hillary does, which is why if you read her campaign website you’ll find it full of right-wing ideas and talking points and triangulation ideas. She doesn’t understand what’s really wrong with our system, so there’s no way she’d even try to move the Congress to better represent what most Americans actually want (see ZebraShaSha’s post with a list of issues with links showing how utterly mainstream Bernie actually is).
Please. What has she ever negotiated that these alleged masters have ever supported her on? Ever.
No to mention, this misses the point entirely! The country is over having “masters” ruling our elected representatives. Over it. We’re trying to put a stop to it, not give it a place at the table!
Over it.
Sound just like Trump there.
Trump and Sanders have a kind of similar appeal, I think.
From GovTrack —
Bernard “Bernie” Sanders sits on the following committees:
Ranking Member, Senate Committee on the Budget
Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Member, Subcommittee on Energy
Member, Subcommittee on National Parks
Member, Subcommittee on Water and Power
Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works
Member, Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Member, Subcommittee on Fisheries, Water, and Wildlife
Member, Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Primary Health and Retirement Security
Member, Subcommittee on Children and Families
Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs
Compared to others in Congress he is the farthest left and middle of the pack with regard to leadership (for the latter he grades better than GOP candidates Cruz and Paul and only slightly worse than 2012 Republican nominee McCain).
He sponsored or co-sponsored 354 bills.
Comparing Sanders to his colleagues in 2014 during the 113th Congress, Sanders didn’t wrote bipartisan bills very often (which, seeing as he is the most liberal Senator, that probably isn’t a shock), but he was among the highest ranked Senators for working with the House, introducing bills, Laws Enacted, Bills Out of Committee, received a high Leadership Score and also didn’t miss many votes.
He’s been busy and considering being way father left than his colleagues, has also been productive.
Doesn’t count. Because reasons.
I do try to live in the world that is, not the world of pixies and fairy dust, Shayna.
No, Sanders no more has a secret unreleased plan to win a Democratic majority in both the House and in the Senate (that he has kept to himself for 24 years now) than Trump has a plan to defeat ISIS. And I agree with Jeff Weaver his campaign manager, and with Bernie himself:
Difference being I accept the reality that Congress is going to be pretty much in its current composition and that there will be no “revolution.” QED no Sanders elected President, “forget about it.”
The House is out of reach for the Democrats and will continue to be mostly dominated by various flavors of Far Right; the Senate is an unlikely flip.
The GOP will, in the near term at least, continue to dominate Congress, and those elected GOP Congressional representatives will dance when told by those who fund them and dance the dance they are told to dance. You want to win and accomplish something fight and you also win allies, including some within the 1 or even the 0.1%, and you negotiate and compromise as well.
Sanders wants single payor. That’s nice. Honestly it was my preference too. But real world was that it was not going to happen and actually accomplishing something required getting all the vested interest actors enough of what they wanted that something good, not perfect, could get done. “Single payor or nothing” would have meant nothing.
Obama did not make a mistake by doing what he promised to do, to try to work together with the GOP. He did not make a mistake in not allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. And as a result we have not achieved perfection but he did do a lot of good while working towards perfecting the world.
And Sanders won’t expand his support with a strategy that seems bent on trying to diminish and minimize what Obama accomplished.
John Stamos’ … help me out … how many of the 354 bills that he sponsored or co-sponsored got passed in either house and how many actually became law. What were they?
I can find in that cite of yours S. 885 (113th) that "[d]esignates the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 35 Park Street in Danville, Vermont, as the “Thaddeus Stevens Post Office.”
And S. 893 that is more meaningful: “to provide for an increase, effective December 1, 2013, in the rates of compensation for veterans with service-connected disabilities and the rates of dependency and indemnity compensation for the survivors of certain disabled veterans, and for other purposes.” Not hard to get both sides to agree to that though: veteran benefits is usually good politics.
And S. 2782 which addresses that soldiers are not all men now so an update was needed: “Amends the federal charter of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States to describe the organization as a national association of veterans (currently, an association of men) who, as soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen, served this Nation in wars, campaigns, and expeditions on foreign soil or in hostile waters.
Expands its purpose of assisting widows to that of assisting surviving spouses.” Okay. Duh.
Any others? I mean 24 years, 354 bills … what is the track record of sponsoring and co-sponsoring ones that actually passed, became law, and were other than duh of course let’s pass this.
Nice to sign on as co-sponsor to lots of bills that failed to do more than take up discussion time, to sponsor some more of them. Nice to even get a few out of Committee before they fail. Nice to be a member of lots of committees. Not as nice to miss more votes than 80% of his fellow critters.
And not a record of accomplishing anything that actually did our country any good. More a record of sitting in lots of committees, introducing bills that failed and were doomed to fail, and contributing to a do-nothing Congress.
Why did his sponsored and co-sponsored bills almost always do no more than waste time? Because he was the second lowest of all Senate Committee Chairs and Ranking Members at bipartisanship.
No compromise. This way or nothing! Results in spending a lot of time and energy to indeed accomplish … nothing.
Yup, doesn’t count. Because it is bupkiss. It is empty space and wasting time. It accomplished … bupkiss.
Edited to add … I grant his one big negotiated compromise success as noted on VA healthcare reform. That was real. One decent actual accomplishment in 24 years though?
Yeah, I’m a fan of the guy too, but if he had a plan to shift the downticket races, he’d already have shared it. It doesn’t make any sense to sit on something like that.