2018 U.S. Open (tennis)

The Game Room
21

“Bigoted nonsense”?!? Because she happens to be black? I gave another example of someone guilty of poor sporstmanship (John McEnroe, a white man) and one of good sportsmanship (her sister Venus, also obviously a black woman). In a previous post I praised Osaka, who is also black; and as it happens I also love Sloane Stephens*, who won the title last year. Part of equal rights is not being immune from being criticized if you engage in egregious conduct.

I thought everyone knew what I said was factually true, but here is the evidence:

Threatening/menacing a very small older female lines judge**, both by brandishing her racquet at her and making verbal threats: - YouTube

In case you’re wondering what she said while being physically menacing:

And she DID foot fault, BTW.

And here she is again, threatening another official a couple years later: Serena Goes OFF AT US Open - YouTube

No other major player (meaning someone who has won multiple Slams and/or has been #1 in the world) in tennis history has done anything like this even once. Serena has done it at least twice!

More evidence of her “low character” comes in her comments about the heinous Steubenville rapists:

If you want to dismiss all that and say she is not of low character, that is your prerogative, I suppose. But to call a different conclsuion “bigoted nonsense” is not a tenable position, to say the least.
*Speaking of Sloane, here’s what she said about Serena in 2013:

**The line judge’s identity was kept secret for a while, but years later the Guardian interviewed her and we learned she is 5’0” and was scared at the time: Line judge on end of Serena Williams's rant admits: 'I was scared' | Serena Williams | The Guardian

22

I don’t always agree with Slacker, and I agree that he has a history of making, shall we say, controversial comments. But I don’t think he was being particularly contrarian here.

23

See, this is why people don’t like the Williams sisters. Instead of judging their absolutely fucking amazing, almost superhuman ability to play tennis, we’re debating their behavior. Their father has been stirring the pot since his daughters first became professionals. The Williams sisters are incredibly gifted tennis players, and I’m sure they’re fine people in their own right, but they’re not Arthur Ashe.

24

I’ve been a fan of hers for almost 20 years, and I remember that incident distinctly. It’s irrelevant to my criticism of your denigrating language, which is unfortunately used very commonly against her.

25

I don’t have any problem with criticizing Serena when her temper gets the best of her. But I’ll push back against bigoted nonsense, like comparing her to animals or ridiculousness like “very low character”, whenever I see it. It’s entirely possible to criticize her mistakes without the bigoted silliness.

26

I don’t think the leash comment was out of bounds; there’s nothing inherently racist about it. The thing is, if Serena Williams would just stop arguing with umpires and stayed classy, nobody would have made such remarks.

27

Nah, sorry, you’re wrong.

I frequently disagree with madsircool, but you’re overreacting, maybe internalizing here.

28

Bullshit. Her and Venus have been compared to animals and have had to put up with overt and subtle bigotry for twenty years or more. It’s had very little correlation with anything they’ve actually done. And sometimes Serena lets her temper get the best of her - she’s human, and she’s been shit on for years and years, and she’s not perfect. But when that happens, that’s not an excuse to use racist and denigrating language. And it’s not her behavior that caused this racist and denigrating language. She’s been called racist names year after year, no matter her behavior. Your last sentence is ignorant and false.

29

“I didn’t get coaching,” Williams said multiple times. “I don’t cheat! I didn’t get coaching. How can you say that? You owe me an apology. I have never cheated in my life!”

then the Coach admits to Coaching during the match (and previous matches) in the Pam Shriver interview, I think he gets his walking papers sooner rather than later.

30

She’s been called racist names but “leash is too long” is not racist at all. Open a bottle of wine and sip it. Have a good one.

31

Glad you recognize that the racist bullshit has nothing to do with her behavior. We’ll disagree about leash metaphors. Goodnight to you as well.

32

I think my bottom line is this: Serena Williams antics deprived Osaka of what should have been the highlight of her life. She defeated Williams, but because Williams wanted to intentionally cause scenes and argue with umpires (as she often does), we now have ‘questions’ or ‘doubts’ about the legitimacy of Osaka’s victory.

As far as I’m concerned, regardless of the ethnicity and background of everyone involved, what should have been Osaka’s great moment, has been instead taken from her. Williams lost, but rather than admitting that she was defeated by a better player on a particular day, she can blame it on…something else.

33
  1. You mean “SHE and Venus”.
  2. Yes, they have been the target of a lot of bigotry.
  3. Is his last sentence false? Hard to say. Does Sloane get the same level of bigoted abuse aimed her way?
  4. Even if she does not, just because bigots would be less likely to talk shit about Serena if she were a better person, that does not excuse the bigotry.
  5. The “leash” thing is a common metaphor, but like the “chink in his armor” controversy (do you guys remember that one?), people should refrain from using common metaphors if they have potentially troublesome ambiguous interpretations.
  6. None of this in any way means that it’s bigoted or out of bounds to have a low opinion of Serena’s character, given that you can’t name another top player, male or female, who has done similar things. It’s just important to keep the racial epithets out of the discussion.

ETA:

This is why I disliked Serena long before she went way beyond bounds in 2009. Every time she lost (which wasn’t that often), she was a sore loser. And I don’t mainly mean blaming bad calls. Her poor sportsmanship was slightly more subtle and nothing you can penalize someone for, but a mark of bad character all the same. She would simply never give her opponent any credit. She lost because she screwed up or had a nagging injury. Even if this might have been true in some cases (and her high risk/high reward game means she is going to have days where she sprays balls and her errors cost her—that’s part of the gamble she takes with that style), it’s poor form to say so.

34

She was very gracious to Osaka. I think your analysis has been way, way off here. But it’s all opinion. At least you haven’t used any bigoted turns of phrase.

35

I agreed that the “leash” line, even if the intent was innocent, treads on dicey ground and should be avoided. But if “low character” carries a similarly loaded implication (beyond some blanket rule that one must never say anything negative about a strong black woman, or some such thing), I am honestly unaware of it.

Anyway, I went back and watched the post-match commentary and trophy ceremony (previously I had stopped just after the final point, as I usually do to avoid all the de rigueur banalities). This was obviously a special case! Some miscellaneous reactions:

—I had to laugh at seeing them replay Serena’s protestations to the various officials with the sound brought up to where we could hear her argue with them. Her main point, that she repeated over and over, was “you know my character”. OMG! Yes, Serena: they do. I’m sure they are familiar with 2009 at that same tournament.

—Speaking of 2009, the egregious homerism of the announcing crew was cringeworthy, especially Pam Shriver. Chris Fowler, I was resistant when they started using him in tennis (whereas I had always liked him on Sportscenter or whatever) as I felt he was an outsider. But he’s been pretty game over the years. And he did try to gently point out that this is not the first time Serena has been involved with controversy at Flushing Meadows. But Shriver’s reaction to this was to say “Yes, in 2009, there was the infamous foot fault call”. :smack: Really, Pam? That was what was infamous about 2009? :dubious: A middle-schooler watching this coverage and relying on it to get a sense of that history, would have absolutely no sense of the true nature of that tournament exit and the context it creates around 2018 and “you thief, you stole a point from me”.

—And speaking of that point: Sure, sometimes getting docked a point can be pretty huge, like obviously on match point, set point, or even break point. But when it’s to give your opponent 15-0 in a mid-set game? If you’re really better than they are, this should not exactly be your Waterloo.

—Plus, the actual point was taken in response to her breaking her racquet, and I would have said no one thinks that should be allowed (until I saw her coach saying so in a postmatch interview—wow, what a terrible idea). So what she’s really saying is “I shouldn’t have had my free warning taken away for my coach trying to coach me, so that I could then have a free shot later in the match at breaking an expensive racquet on international TV, a racquet many kids would love to have but couldn’t afford, because I want to be able to throw a tantrum over my own poor play without even the small consequence of being down 15-0 in a game.” Gross.

—Speaking of her coach’s postgame interview, as someone noted above he totally admitted to coaching, while brushing it off with “everyone does it” (and BTW, they should either enforce the rule or get rid of it, and I vote for “enforce” but I can see merit in the opposite argument). That’s…awkward, because Serena swore up and down, over and over, that she would NEVER. Did her coach know she had done that? Because if he did, that is kind of selling her out.

—Shame on the crowd for their booing. As others have noted, what a shame for Osaka!

—Which reminds me of the one positive I saw for Serena: she did ask them to stop. I think they were going to boo Osaka when she spoke, if Serena hadn’t said that! Jesus. :eek:

—The guy who was doing the interview had to be thinking “get me out of here”. LOL

—Set aside the coaching deal. Is Serena really saying male players get away with racquet abuse and verbal abuse of the chair umpire without even getting any code violation (including warnings)? Can we have an example, please, from one of the top players?

—Blatant nonsexism brag: when they said the tournament referee was coming out, the frame contained a middle-aged woman and a grey-haired man. I totally assumed the woman was the referee, even though upon reflection I’ve seen that guy hanging around the tournament for years and years.

—I completely believe the penalties were justified. However, the game penalty in particular meant that Osaka did have a greased path to close out the match, and can’t 100% be said to have actually won it with her tennis. It would have been badass of her to come back on her next service game and purposely serve eight faults in a row, and basically throw it down like “okay, now I’m going to beat you straight up”. Sure, that doesn’t leave it the exact same score it would have been otherwise, but close enough.

36

Exactly this.

Osaka played Serena off the court in the first set and had just broken back strongly in the second. She looked mentally rock-solid and I think that is why Serena imploded. Understandable but ugly nonetheless and she does have form on this.

She made some very bizarre comments on court, claiming she doesn’t receive coaching (not true, her coach has admitted it) and demanding an apology from the umpire. She couldn’t let it go. She brought her daughter into it for some reason which was rather cringeworthy to me (oh really Serena, you’ve had a baby? I literally had no idea, you should’ve mentioned it sooner :rolleyes:)
Ultimately all the warnings were justified. She did receive coaching, she did smash her racket, she did rant at length to the umpire and ended up calling him a “liar” and a “cheat”.

The better player won and it is a shame that there should be any hint of doubt about it. Serena’s problems last night were of her own making and open to her own solutions. She has no-one to blame but herself and she should say so. A genuine admission of “I was an arsehole and I’m sorry” goes a long way.

37

To make the first violation (‘coaching’) the umpire had to be 100% convinced that a) the gesture was coaching, that b) Serena saw from c) the other side of the stadium. That the coaching says he was coaching is irrelevant, that 100% of coaches in 100% of matches do the same (which is true) is irrelevant (begs the question what is coaching - is shouting at your student to ‘come on’ coaching?) - the umpire needs to be 100% certain of all three things to make that call, particularly in the finals of the US Open. He wasn’t, so he was wrong to make that call. He started the chain of events with a bad call.

And that’s ignoring the little fact that I can’t remember a player less likely to be coached on-court. He could have held up a neon sign trying to tell her what to do, she’d ignore it and figure out what to do on her own.
That’s what she always does, and it’s kinda worked out for her.

The second call (racket abuse) is fine - and Serena should have known that it was going to be another violation.

The third call was where the umpire completely lost it. Sorry, there is no effin’ way the umpire can call a game penalty in any match, let alone the finals of the US Open at 3-4 in the second set.
Not unless Serena was throwing down F bombs are threatening violence. She wasn’t - she was - rightly - claiming that the umpire cost her a point by the ridiculous first violation.

Did Serena handle it well? No - coaching violations aren’t common, but not unheard of - she should have grumbled about it and gone back to business at hand, mainly trying to figure out what to do about Naomi, who was beating the all over the court.

But the umpire started the chain of events, and he has to understand context and thing big picture. It’s the finals of the US Open! Of course players are emotional.
Let them blow of steam and focus on de-escalating the situation. "I’m sorry, i’m not calling you a cheater, I’m saying your coach was cheating. We can discuss after the match. I have to let you know that if you continue I’ll be forced to issue another violation, and that’s a game penalty’.

That was all it took.

Serena didn’t handle it that great, but the umpire handled it far, far worse.

38

This is pretty much exactly how I see it.

39

This article gives several examples of the double standard that women players (and Serena in particular) often seem to face: US Open: sexism against Serena – organisers and umpire Carlos Ramos owe Williams an apology for their double standards | South China Morning Post

40

How would this have been handled in other sports? If someone had argued with the umpire like that in cricket they’d be looking at a large fine and probably a ban. What about football, baseball and the like?