Ya know what? As stupid as the whole thing with the civil rights lawyer and CTU’s attempt to torture this guy was - and yes, it was plenty stupid - I’m not even concerned with that. My problem is that they made it so damn boring. If I’m entertained I’m willing to provide enormous amounts of slack to idiotic plot contrivances. This just didn’t cut it.
I think this is reasonable if Marwan is just trying to run a bunch of simultaneous attacks. The problem is that the show presents it as a series, where each attack is a piece of a linear plan. They get into this pattern of solving a major problem every 3 or 4 episodes, but wait!, there’s a bigger problem, etc.
They’d be better off having several of the attacks going on at once. It makes more sense for Marwan to attack this way, and it would also solve a lot of the problems in the real-time format. Whenever they need transit time for one character to get somewhere, they can cut to the other threat for a while. But what do I know 
Jack doesn’t fear God.
God fears Jack.
Just wait until the last episode when the real villian is revealed to be…
Rube Goldberg
…I liked this episode…
Sure, the lawyer was silly, but for God’s sake, the whole series has been a comic book!
Nonsense. God doesn’t have any fingers to break.
Yeah, but there’s good comic books and bad ones, and this one’s quickly becoming a really bad one. I don’t feel terribly inclined to even watch next week, but I will out of pure stubbornness. I might not bother next season though. My time is more valuable that this. Last night we couldn’t wait for 24 to be over so we could put on the DVDs of *The Shield * we borrowed from a friend. We’re hooked!
I agree, but then I remember that this program is on Fox. I would have a hard time believing that they would consider broadcasting anything intellectually challenging that might cast an unpleasant light on the right wing.
In this series, anyone defending civil rights, freedom of speech, or humane treatment is by nature weak and ineffective. The newly sworn-in President is presented as lily-livered because he needs twenty minutes to talk to someone in the Justice Department.
The writers are creating incredible and impossible scenarios where all God-fearing Americans are threatened by “the terrorists”, requiring extraordinary and extra-legal solutions. Anyone who stands in the way needs to be knocked down, and the hell with the Constitution. And that means you, too…
Pretty obvious where I am coming from here, but let me elaborate. Despite the horrible personal tragedy of 9/11, four jets taking out the twin towers and part of the Pentagon didn’t come close to endangering the future of this country. We have done that to ourselves with the Patriot Act and the suppression of opposing views. This show just reinforces that viewpoint.
I truly feel sorry for Shohreh Aghdashloo. This is the sort of role that she always turned down, because she felt that it was demeaning to those of MidEastern descent. But, she took this role because she felt that it was a good part with good writing. It must have been an early script…
best to all,
plynck
Except of course there has been no suppression of opposing views. Do you think that, during WW2, a film detailing a theory that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor beforehand and allowed it to happen for personal gain would have been permitted to be made and played nationwide?
There has been no suppression of opposing views, just the Big Lie that such suppression has occurred.
Well, Fox has broadcast *The Simpsons * these past 16 years, and that’s not known as a terribly right-wing show.
What’s weird to me is that 24 was not really this right-wing in previous seasons. President Palmer seemed to be a moderate liberal and was basically a real good guy with critical bad judgement when it came to anything concerning his wife.
Are we ever going to find out the motivations of Marwan’s group? It doesn’t seem to be religious fundamentalism, so what is it? Given the craptastic level of writing lately, I’m not convinced it’ll ever be addressed.
In fact, last night’s episode was the only part of this show I can think of that could be called right wing.
But there were probably other bits I forgot – what were they?
Early this season, there was the depiction of Heller’s son as a pot-smoking loser with “6th grade Michael Moore politics”. I just assumed that made Daddy Heller a potential bad guy, but now we’ll probably never know because that storyline has gone away too. We spent a lot of time on “Does the son know anything? WHAT DOES HE KNOW??? Quick, torture him!” and then…nothing. And it doesn’t seem to matter anymore.
You know what? There’s no way in hell the Amnesty Global lawyer would ever have gained access to the CTU building. They would have tied him up in court for months at best, at worst they would have detained him too if he made a fuss and got in their way. I can’t believe that we have this in the same episode where Tony’s making decisions based on “well, the President’s not here so he can’t stop me”. The President has little authority but Amnesty Global has the final word? Hell, remind me to renew my AI membership.
Plus, the lawyer must have gotten the call from whoever Marwan called (unless Marwan has the guy’s direct number), teleport to a judge’s house to wake him up and get a court order signed, then teleport over to CTU to get there as fast as he did. My only other theory involves time travel.
Don’t forget kidnap the SecDef and put him on Internet Mock Trial…
However, I don’t think the meltdowns of reactors was supposed to be just a diversion for stealing the stealth fighter. I think the meltdown was an end in and of itself – because (suspending disbelief and presuming this were possible) if CTU hadn’t figured things out in time to start retaking the reactors, they would have melted down a WHOLE lot of them and killed a WHOLE lot of people, which seems to be their goal. Kill lots of people – throw country into chaos.
So I look at the attack on Air Force One just as a separate thing – icing on the cake for Marwan. “Hey, while we’re at it, let’s just do as much damage as possible – if we can get our hands on a nuke or two, we can even do MORE damage, and maybe we could even knock off the President, too!”
Would such a plan by real terrorists be overreaching a bit? Duhhhhh… yep!
But I don’t see it in the sense of “okay, they foiled the fake plan, now for the REAL plan”. I see it as a checklist of major strikes they wanted to do, and any one of the biggies succeeding would accomplish the goal – which is “Kill lots of people, throw country into chaos” (IMHO).
Moderate Liberal Palmer was one of the first folks to resort to extraordinary and extra-legal solutions, and the hell with the Constitution.
Season 2, Roger Stanton, feet in bucket of water, Secret Service guy hitting him with electroshock torture. President Palmer watching the live feed on the laptop.
Of course, the “extraordinary situations” and “extraordinary measures” has been an overriding theme throughout all the seasons. Early on, I think the intent (like with season 2 and Stanton) was to make us think and ponder and ask ourselves, “what measures WOULD be justified in this type of situation?” Where should we draw the line.
Of course, it was done better in season 2. In season 3, they bumped it up a bit with Saunders demanding the death of Ryan Chappelle.
In season 4, we’re wondering whether CTU employees have a wrongful torture clause in their benefits package…
Next week, as the episode begins…
1:00:00… 1:00:01… 1:00:02… 1:00:03…
Curtis (looking at watch): Oh, shit! I just remembered! I told Behrooz 3 hours ago not to worry, that I would protect him. Dammit, I totally forgot about his terror-kid ass!!!
Yeah, but remember how that was a big deal, and nodoby felt good about it, least of all Palmer? Now it’s a matter of routine.
Sure, and it used to be interesting watching them walk that fine line back before the massive epidemic of retardation hit the writing staff. I just think it’s weird that it’s not presented as a moral quandary anymore, or that it puts a tarnish on the people who do it. My husband and I were discussing this as we fired up a DVD of *The Shield * after 24 last night; both shows deal with these issues, but at least *The Shield * doesn’t act like its protagonist is a true-blue hero type. He’s a rotten SOB who gets a very dirty and difficult job done, but that doesn’t make it ok that he’s a rotten SOB, and the character has that self-awareness. Mackey’s a bad person, but he’s not actually a sociopath.
It’s devolved into a bunch of caricatures running through wholly unbelieveable situations. This season plays like a none-too-subtle style parody of its first two years. And the worst part is, it’s not fun or engaging anymore. It’s just boring. I can excuse goofiness if they keep the thrills coming. Hell, I liked *Armageddon * and its ridiculous excesses because it only took itself mock-seriously. 24 is pissing me off because suddenly they act like they’re communicating an Important Message while giving us scenarios that are less probable or well-plotted than The Omega Code 2.
In two years of watching, this has to be the most poorly-written episode I’ve seen.
When the President is told his first act as President could be allowing the torture of an innocent man, how does the other guy NOT say ‘on the other hand, if he knows something, and we don’t get it from him, your first act as President will have been to willingly allow a nuclear attack on our soil…your call, dumbass.’ And how does Jack not mention the probability that Marwhan contacted the lawyers himself when they were on the conference call? Terrrrrrrrrrrible scripting.
I found myself flipping between 24 and the WWE for cryin out loud. That should never, never, never, EVER happen.
How did AmnestyHippyLawyerGuy make it all the way from New York City in a matter of minutes…'cause isn’t he Sex and the City’s Charlotte’s divorce lawyer/beau?
(Uh, I know this because my wife watches SATC a lot…that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.)
I truly feel sorry for Shohreh Aghdashloo. This is the sort of role that she always turned down, because she felt that it was demeaning to those of MidEastern descent. But, she took this role because she felt that it was a good part with good writing. It must have been an early script…
best to all,
plynck
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I’d meant to ask about that but kept forgetting.
I thought she only agreed to be on the show if the terrorists were portrayed as something other than a bunch of rabit Islamofascists who have no goal in life other than to kill 'merkians.
What happened?
-Joe