The Small One never has an accident during the day. But that’s easy, because she drops all her deuces at night.
That makes training her out of it a bit of a pickle; I can’t put her on the toilet in anticipation of a poop and then praise her for it, thus associating dropping a steamer in the potty with good things, because she’s invariably asleep when she poops.
She’s good at using the potty during the day to pee. Pretty much has that down pat. But most nights, it’s a crapaganza at midnight.
Anyone deal with, and solve, this perplexing dilemma?
I’ve never heard of this, but I guess it’s analogous to bed wetting, which can continue until puberty, when the bladder grows. Hopefully you won’t have to wait that long.
I haven’t dealt with it myself, but you might try getting her up a couple of times during the night and sitting her on the toilet as you were planning to. That assumes that she’s aware of when she’s going and not doing it while she’s totally asleep.
My little one is doing something like this herself. I can ask her all day long if she wants to go poopie, but she’ll wait until we’ve got her tucked into bed. She wears underwear all day, but it’s the pull-ups at night just for this reason.
I asked about this during her last doctor visit (just turned 3 this month) and the doctor said it was perfectly normal. It’s where the idea of “anal retentive” came from. It’s just a stage kiddos go through, some longer than others. They’ve got no problems watching their pee get flushed away, but poopie in another matter. We were told to just wait it out. It’ll eventually happen. I don’t know how much longer that’s going to work for me though.
I also can’t imagine waking her up at night to go to the potty. We’re too grateful when she does finally fall asleep that we would want to get her going again.
Everything’s just a phase Rick, We had no experience with what you’re reporting, but at the same age my daughter decided that pooping was painful, and so she held it until the inevitable happened: she pooped in her pants. I was beside myself for a couple of months, and then “voila” everything changed.
I have no idea what the cause-and-effects were, but we went through weeks and weeks of her pooping in her pants, and then… back to normal.
Huh, I just realized that my daughter hasn’t held in her poop until it “leaked” out all over her underwear in…months and months. Wow, I was ready to bash my head open and now the problem has went away and I didn’t even notice.
It’s obviously because your child is an abnormal demonic entity, possibly a werewolf, who will in the due course of time transmogrify during the full moon into a hideous, blood-thirsty beast who eats three whole boxes of cereal a day and grow out of her shoes seemingly every other month.
I recommend you have her embedded in a nice clear acrylic with a glossy finish.
Seriously, taking a dump is not remotely like going for a piss.You don’t just relax and let it out, there’s deliberate pushing involved. I really can’t imagine that being successful at 3 in the morning.
OTOH I’d be pretty surprised to find a kid doing that while she was actually asleep. How does the Small Girl wake up? Does she lie there in a daydream for half an hour before getting up or calling for attention? Because I’d figure “first thing in the morning before you know she’s awake” is the most likely time for it to be happening. You could possibly slip in early and catch her waking up (quite different from deliberately rousing her) and see if you can get in before it comes out.
I’m a firm believer in Lolly Bribery myself, which has been about the only thing that’s done any good with our Smaller Girl (or the Taller Girl, in her day, either for that matter). Knowing that the lollies were there, in plain view in the bathroom, had an instant good effect on her (now she only craps her pants and sneaks off to hide in her bedroom in case we find her and change her half the time :smack:)
Other than that … just remember there’s HEAPS of 3 and a half year olds in similar situations, it just seems like everybody else’s child was fully trained night and day before their second birthday because the rest of us tend to shut up about it. I’d love to have a magic bullet but unfortunately I’m batting 0 for 2 at the moment.
Actually Aspidistra there is both relaxation and pushing involved. The abdominal wall contracts while the anal sphincter relaxes at the same time and the more difficult part for kids to master is the relaxation part. If they try too hard they just tighten up the sphincter and push against a closed opening.
Many preschoolers are stool withholders … they’ve had a hard poop or so in the past and from their POV it hurts so they are not going to do it again. The next time is larger and harder convincing them to try even more to avoid the experience next time. Some posters here were lucky and their kids just got over it, but some kids do not - by school age they’ve been holding it in so long that have “overflow incontinence” and encopresis.
One possibility for this girl is that she is a stool withholder and that as she falling asleep her ability to keep a tight seal relents and she has a poop. If so then you want to get her stools so soft that she cannot hold them in during the day - so soft that she is forced to have two or three soft stools a day for a few months even if that means a few accidents along the way. You want her to learn from experience that stools do not hurt and to trust the pooping process - as goofy as that sounds. Dietary fiber is fine but using a by mouth stool softener is often needed. One product is Miralax which is nice because it is a powder that dissolves into any liquid with little taste or texture. But many other products work just fine too. You dose however much is necessary to get those two soft stools a day and you may try dosing first thing in the morning so you get a poop by late afternoon in response.
OTOH if she has not had a history of painful poops then it may be as simple as being more comfortable pooping in her diaper at night and that is something to either just wait out or to casually bribe her out of (a bag of a favorite treat, stickers whatever, told one time and one time only that when she is a big girl and ready to poop in the potty she’ll get one of those each time, left where she can see them but not reach them, and wait - after a week or so you get the “I want one of those!” - and you casually state “Oh those are the treat for when you go poop in the potty. You let me know when you are ready.” - Another week or so and poops in potty. Only works after the third birthday. Don’t know why.)
A claim like that calls for a little more evidence or reasoning that you gave. FWIW, we did this with our oldest child and it worked fine. We’re about to do it with the middle one, currently 3.5 years.
It’s totally natural, the kid probably has some fear of dumping in the toilet - hard to say for sure what goes through their minds, but I’ve definitely seen my kids refuse, even after being fully toilet-trained, to use the toilet for poop, but if we put a diaper on, out it comes.
Eventually, she’ll get over her hang-up. She just needs to work up the courage. Just keep re-inforcing the fact that “big girls like Mommy” poop on the toilet, and “soon she will be a big girl” and do the same. Then, before putting on her nighttime diaper, ask her if she thinks she’s big enough yet and wants to try. Her confidence level will build, and she’ll eventually get up the courage to actually use the toilet for number 2 too.
I’m sorry to hijack, but can you talk more about this, or provide some cites? I don’t doubt this at all, but I’d like to read more, if you have anything. Thanks.
My son is a champion poopy-withholder (at 4.5). He’s finally started going poopy on the potty. We give him (on the advice of a pediatric gastroenterologist) Miralax every morning in his juice. We started at a tablespoon, and we’re about to drop him to 1 1/2 tsp (1/2 tsp reduction every month since he started using the potty). This keeps his stools very soft, so even when he withholds, we know he’s not hurting when he goes. He goes almost every night, around dinner/bath time, like clockwork.
On the advice of a behavioral therapist (recommended by the gastro because he had anxiety issues) we used to sit him for poopy a few times a day. It wouldn’t hurt to sit her before bed–no pressure, just sitting–we just read to him for a few minutes. Eventually, he started to go before bedtime.
Or, you could just wait it out. Our kid was a hard case–it took months to get him to go on the potty, and now he still holds it in, but he’s much better about sitting when he needs to.
I’d be very cautious with that daily approach. Preschoolers also are sensitive to the power dynamic and as parents you are forces of nature. If they get the message that you really care but that you can’t make them … hoohah! What a trip. Asking every day may inadvertently just reinforce the refusal pattern by giving more opportunities to say “no” and get a kick from the ability to do so each time. Really better to soft sell it. “It may be a long time until you are ready to be a big girl, but you’ll let us know.” (Bag of treats just staring at her on the shelf.) 1 to 2 weeks is a long time when you 3.
I thought I was describing a soft-sell. I don’t disagree - you can’t beg them, you can’t give them the impression that they’re doing something for you by using the potty, or doing something to you by refusing. You’re offering them the opportunity to be “big”, and that’s all.
My daughter would pee in the potty happily. However, we had to put her in a diaper to poop. According to her pediatrician, it is perfectly normal.
If it is any comfort, we moved mid-potty training and as soon as she was in the new house, the problem disappeared. I’m not suggesting you move, but just letting you know, once they “get it” they tend to get it. I also believe that that last hurdle is to make you appreciate how much nicer life will be once they are fully trained.
Really? Seriously? Ok, I’ll withdraw my comment … it’s just I’ve never heard of anyone in my fairly wide parenting circle ever doing this (though plenty do it for number 1’s - but that’s a whole 'nother kettle of fish)
This is a good cite on late bedwetting. Bladder size is just one factor. There’s also a hormone (ADH) which isn’t present in babies and generally kicks in some time before school age - it concentrates the urine so that less is produced at night.
On a parenting board I have chatted to a woman who didn’t acheive nighttime continence till she was 15. Very stressful, particularly back in the day when SOP for a lot of parents was to administer punishments till they got it right.
