39% of US Marines refuse COVID-19 vaccination

[squeegee]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

The Department of Defense could, if it was so inclined, require vaccination whether it is under an EUA or full approval.

I’m not sure if this falls under the ‘so inclined’ doctrine, but I remember stories like this from a few weeks ago:

Military May Revisit Making COVID-19 Vaccines Mandatory After FDA Grants...

Despite the popular belief that the Pentagon can inject troops with anything it wants, military leaders are unable to force service members to get the COVID vaccinations at this time because the shots are approved only under an emergency-use authorization.

Here’s another article that discusses whether vaccine mandates may be allowed at all under EUA laws:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20210212.410237/full/

The EUA provision was added to the federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) in 2004 to give the government increased flexibility to respond to a chemical, biologic, nuclear, or radiation threat. When the pathway was created, special language was included for informational disclosures for individuals offered a medical product under an EUA. Specifically, under 21 U.S.C. § 360bbb-3(e)(1)(A)(ii)(III), each individual must be informed “of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product, of the consequences, if any, of refusing administration of the product, and of the alternatives to the product that are available and of their benefits and risks.”

Although no court has interpreted this provision, the first segment of the subclause suggests that mandates are categorically prohibited, since each person must have “the option to accept or refuse.” But another plausible interpretation is to view segment two as a qualifier to segment one. According to this interpretation, the provision as a whole could be interpreted to dictate that, although a person has the option to refuse an EUA product, refusal can come with “consequences.” Under this interpretation, the legality of a mandate is likely to hinge on how the term “consequences” is defined. Since the term is not defined in the statute, statutory interpretation principles dictate that the word should be defined in ordinary terms within the context of the statute.

[DrDeth]

@FigNorton

You realize there’s massive vaccine resistance in hospital staff and everywhere else, right? This isn’t the first story you’ve read, is it?

Mostly as they are either Nite crew and cant get in, or they are low level staff at homes for the elderly, etc.

Every one I know has gotten it.

And remember, about half the nation voted for Trump. Covid deniers, maskholes, etc.

[FigNorton]

@DrDeth

Every one I know has gotten it

Neat. How many people do you know?

[DrDeth]

I know 8 people in health care. Small sample. But all highly educated, etc. They all announced it on FB.

[Deeg]

There was an article in the NYT recently about an elder care facility that was able to get participation rate to 78%, which was a bit higher than average in NY.

[Czarcasm]

@kanicbird

I think you are not getting the concept of the military.

I think you are not getting the idea of sovereignty. Just because a country allows U.S. troops in does not mean that the laws of that country do not apply.

[penultima_thule]

@kanicbird

@Czarcasm

Can countries refuse to let in unvaccinated U.S. troops?

I think you are not getting the concept of the military.

+1
Maybe @Czarcasm is suggesting that if they were vaccinated, it wouldn’t be an invasion?

[Czarcasm]

@penultima_thule

Maybe @Czarcasm is suggesting that if they were vaccinated, it wouldn’t be an invasion

I was certainly suggesting that invasion wasn’t the only reason we are in other countries.

[penultima_thule]

True but they are in other countries for only two reasons:

1. An invasion;
2. Prevent an invasion.

[DrDeth]

3. training.

4. Show the flag.

[Czarcasm]

Still the question remains-If a country imposes strict quarantine rules involving getting vaccinated, are U.S. troops stationed in that country allowed to flaunt those rules?

[penultima_thule]

You are correct, it’s a question of sovereignty
US troops staying within designated US barracks may have aspirations that they are only subject to US law.
But US (equally other nations troops for that matter) are active within the community of the country they are posted, they don’t have diplomatic immunity, and are subject to local laws.

Need to check the fine print within the rules of engagement. May well differ between juridictions.

[Enjoy_Slurm]

@bobot

We are going to be unable to ever really get a handle on the spread of this virus.

This. We never will and billions will die because of these science deniers.

[hajario]

@Deeg

There was an article in the NYT recently about an elder care facility that was able to get participation rate to 78%, which was a bit higher than average in NY.

Overall in the entire country, 73% of people over 65 have gotten at least one shot so far. This might be a good indicator of what to expect from other age groups once everyone has an opportunity. Of course, vax rates aren’t homogeneous across the country. In some ares, people are driving for over an hour to find a shot. There’s a county in Texas where the health department is giving people $10 to get one.

[DeathPool]

Billions? You gotta be joking!

[RickJay]

@Enjoy_Slurm

This. We never will and billions will die because of these science deniers.

“Billions” might be just a slight overestimate.

[Elmer_J.Fudd]

Unless you count other things that science deniers are thwarting like addressing climate change.

[silenus]

Just wait until the lawsuits start. I’m anticipating more than a few. Hypothetical: What if you get vaccinated, and most everybody in your work place does the same. But not Phil. Phil is an anti-vaxxer and mocks masks, vaccines and all else science. He get Covid and manages to infect you as well. What are your chances of suing Phil out of existence?

[FigNorton]

@silenus

What are your chances of suing Phil out of existence?

Very small, I would think. Are there many successful lawsuits for anything similar? If you can’t force a soldier to take an emergency authorized medicine, do you really think you can sue a civilian for not taking it?

[Saintly_Loser]

@silenus

Hypothetical: What if you get vaccinated, and most everybody in your work place does the same. But not Phil. Phil is an anti-vaxxer and mocks masks, vaccines and all else science. He get Covid and manages to infect you as well. What are your chances of suing Phil out of existence?

I am not a lawyer. But I imagine your chances of successfully suing Phil are vanishingly small.

However, there may be a possibility of suing your employer for allowing Phil to com to work unvaccinated, unmasked and without observing any safety protocols like social distancing. Or suing your employer for not having established protocols, or not enforcing them, if they have.

Or maybe there won’t be. But I know that this exact liability situation is under discussion at all the major law firms in New York City.