What United States Militia or National Guard has killed the most fellow citizens in a militant action?
Is Kent State the worst?
does the 76 who died in Waco Texas count? That would be ATF and FBI.
The Civil War had a slightly higher bodycount, and in the Union’s view the rebels were still citizens.
Chefguy
October 28, 2008, 12:37pm
4
In a non-combat situation, the draft riots in NYC during the Civil War were pretty bloody, with over 100 killed. Then there were the race riots in Watts in the 60s, where 34 people were killed.
Define militant action, here.
Were the Native Americans considered citizens during the Indian Wars of the 19th century?
I’m not that familiar with the Watts details, but if it was similar to the 1967 Detroit situation the following year, (43 deaths), most of the deaths occurred at the hands of rioters or the hands of police or people defending themselves, with few deaths actually being the result of Army action.
Leaving aside the Civil War and the wars against the Indians, I would have guessed that the 13 striking Pullman workers in the 1894 stike represented the highest number of deaths from the U.S. military on U.S. soil. (OTOH, I don’t know that the 13 (variously reported as 34) all died in conflict with the Army, either, as some of them may have been killed by police or strikebreakers.)
If we were at war with them we didn’t consider them citizens. Citizenship in that era was contingent on a treaty.
This was largely resolved by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, which granted citizenship to the remaining tribes (who weren’t enacting treaties anymore since the wars were over, and who were barred from naturalization.) Frankly it took too long to do so.
tomndebb:
I’m not that familiar with the Watts details, but if it was similar to the 1967 Detroit situation the following year, (43 deaths), most of the deaths occurred at the hands of rioters or the hands of police or people defending themselves, with few deaths actually being the result of Army action.
Leaving aside the Civil War and the wars against the Indians, I would have guessed that the 13 striking Pullman workers in the 1894 stike represented the highest number of deaths from the U.S. military on U.S. soil. (OTOH, I don’t know that the 13 (variously reported as 34) all died in conflict with the Army, either, as some of them may have been killed by police or strikebreakers.)
Wiki doesn’t speak to who caused the deaths, although in the 1992 riots over Rodney King, it says:
While many deaths in the Draft Riots were African-Americans that were killed by angry mobs, most deaths were from military shelling and shooting.
How about the Tulsa race riots:
(Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia )]During the 16 hours of rioting, over 800 people were admitted to local hospitals with injuries, an estimated 10,000 were left homeless, 35 city blocks composed of 1,256 residences were destroyed by fire, and $1.8 million (nearly $21 million in 2007 dollars) in property damage. Officially, thirty-nine people were reported killed in the riot, of whom ten were white. The actual number of black citizens killed by white local militiamen and volunteers as a result of the riot was estimated in the Red Cross report[1][2] at around 300; making the Tulsa race riot the worst in US history. Other estimates range as high as 3,000, based on the number of grave diggers and other circumstances, although the archaeological and forensic work needed to confirm the number of dead has not been performed.[3]
I am not sure how many of the deaths could be directly attributed to the government, but probably a pretty large fraction…
Oh, I think the Bonus Army also deserve honorable mention even though only 5 people were killed:
At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported with six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, Fort Myer, Virginia, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of Civil Service employees left work to line the street and watch the U.S. Army attack its own veterans. The Bonus Marchers, believing the display was in their honour, cheered the troops until Maj. Patton charged the cavalry against them — to which action the Civil Service employee spectators yelled: “Shame! Shame!” against the charging cavalry.
Spoke
October 28, 2008, 11:03pm
12
The Battle of Blair Mountain is an interesting case:
On orders from the famous General Billy Mitchell, Army bombers from Maryland were also used to disperse the miners. A combination of gas and explosive bombs left over from the fighting in World War I were dropped in several locations near the towns of Jeffery, Sharples and Blair. At least one did not explode and was recovered by the miners; it was used months later to great effect during treason and murder trials following the battle. It was the first and only example of Air Power being used by the federal government against US citizens .
Between 50 and 100 miners were killed in the fighting, but Wiki doesn’t break down the number killed in the bombing versus the number killed by the coal company’s hired thugs.
How about the Tulsa Race Riot :
Officially, thirty-nine people were reported killed in the riot, of whom ten were white. The actual number of black citizens killed by white local militiamen and volunteers as a result of the riot was estimated in the Red Cross report[1][2] at around 300; making the Tulsa race riot the worst in US history. Other estimates range as high as 3,000, based on the number of grave diggers and other circumstances, although the archaeological and forensic work needed to confirm the number of dead has not been performed.
Its kind of a grey area, as the killings were carrried out by a mob rather than a military unit, but the local militia regiment was clearly involved.
I would agree about that, but I don’t think that the ATF and FBI fall under Militia or National Guard.
Mk_VII
October 29, 2008, 2:06pm
15
numerous people were shot in the aftermath of the 1906 San Francisco Earthquake and the fire that followed. The official total is thought to be understated.
Are we talking about the deaths in the fire that the Davidians started?
… Allegations that the government started the fire were based largely on an FBI agent’s having fired three “pyrotechnic” tear gas rounds, which are delivered with a charge that burns. The Special Counsel concluded that, because the FBI fired the rounds nearly four hours before the fire started, at a concrete construction pit partially filled with water, 75 feet (23 m) away and downwind from the main living quarters of the complex, the rounds did not start or contribute to the spread of the fire. The Special Counsel noted, by contrast, that recorded interceptions of Davidian conversations included such statements as “David said we have to get the fuel on” and “So we light it first when they come in with the tank right . . . right as they’re coming in.” Davidians who survived the fire acknowledged that other Davidians started the fire. FBI agents witnessed Davidians pouring fuel and igniting a fire, and noted these observations contemporaneously. Lab analysis found accelerants on the clothing of Davidians, and investigators found deliberately punctured fuel cans and a homemade torch at the site. Based on this evidence and testimony, the Special Counsel concluded that the fire was started by the Davidians. …[RIGHT]CITE [/RIGHT]
… Much closer to the time of the fire, from approximately 11:17 a.m. to 12:04 p.m., Title III intercepts recorded the following statements from inside the complex: “Do you think I could light this soon?;” “I want a fire on the front . . . you two can go;” “Keep that fire going . . . keep it.” The only plausible explanation for these comments is that some of the Davidians were executing their plan to start a fire. …
(b) Admissions of Branch Davidians.
and the Davidians killed by other Davidians?
… Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Davidians were shot, including six children under the age of 14, and three-year-old Dayland Gent was stabbed in the chest. The expert retained by the Office of Special Counsel concluded that many of the gunshot wounds “support self-destruction either by overt suicide, consensual execution (suicide by proxy), or less likely, forced execution.” Another explanation, offered by survivor Clyde Doyle (himself a burn victim) is that the gunshots were mercy killings. In a 1995 press conference in Las Vegas, Nevada, Doyle stated that"I can understand why someone would end the suffering of someone, especially a child, who had been gassed and was burning to death. That makes more sense than these claims of a ‘suicide pact.’ The people who are saying that have never been on fire." (Las Vegas Review-Journal) …[RIGHT]CITE [/RIGHT]
Summary of, and link to, the “FINAL REPORT TO THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL CONCERNING THE 1993 CONFRONTATION AT THE MT. CARMEL COMPLEXhere .
CMC +fnord!
crowmanyclouds:
Are we talking about the deaths in the fire that the Davidians started?and the Davidians killed by other Davidians?
Summary of, and link to, the “FINAL REPORT TO THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL CONCERNING THE 1993 CONFRONTATION AT THE MT. CARMEL COMPLEXhere .
CMC +fnord!
The documentaries I have seen on it said that the fire was started by the flares the federal agents fired into the building. Not to mention the gas the agents pumped into the building (into the room the childred were in). They said the gass killed many of the children.
This is from documentaries I have seen (on Discovery Channel I think).