My 2003 A4 is scheduled on Wednesday for the first out of warranty (ie the 1st I’ve got to pay for) service. I knew that audi service is expensive but $570 for this -->
Car buffs, I’m I getting ripped off? Should I find an independent shop to do the service? Or shop I bite the bullet and just have the dealership do it?
2003 A4 1.8T, 35,000 Miles, 4.5 years old
Thanks,
LarsenMTL
Doesn’t sound too awful for dealer service, actually. The 30K service for my Dodge comes in at something like $580, and it’s pretty heavy on “inspect” items as well. Off the top of my head, the tangible items are pretty much just an oil/filter change, air filter, wiper blades and spark plugs.
Feel free to shop around. Just keep records of the work in case there’s an issue down the road so you can say that you have been doing the prescribed maintenance.
Seems to be the going rate.
20K mile service on a 2006 Toyota Rav4, ~$350.
Yes. most of what you posted is a visual inspection which you can do yourself.
Lets break it down:
Replace oil and filter - $20-$40
Engine: check for leaks - free - look at engine yourself
Reset service reminder - $120 for 2 hrs of labor for general inspection (see below)
Replace dust/pollen filter - $20
Replace spark plugs - don’t need replacing at 40K
Replace air cleaner filter - $20
Check the following:
-Coolant level - $0 – check yourself - follow tube from radiator to tank and look at level
-Exhaust system - $0 - probably stainless steel and doesn’t need it
-ODB II diagnostic fault memory - $120 for 2 hrs of labor for general inspection
-Doors - ??? are your doors still attached?
-Battery electrolyte level – batteries are sealed and generally have a 4 year life - expect to replace it within a year - $80
-wipers/washer fluid - $1.50 top it off yourself - or if you go to an oil change specialty shop they usually do that as part of the service.
-manual trans, check for leaks - $0 - are there any oil spots underneath the car?
-transmission final drive oil - ??? Unless you have a cracked axle drive boot there’s nothing to check.
-tire and spare pressure - $1 - you should check your tires regularly anyway - buy a pressure gauge.
-brake system - part of general inspection
-drive shaft boots - part of general inspection
-lights - ??? do you have any lights burned out? are they out of alignment?
-tie rods - at 40K shouldn’t be a problem but include it with part of general inspection
-replace brake fluid - A complete brake flush - $90
Road Test - free with general inspection
I would spend $200 to have the car looked over including an oil change and filters. Modern spark plugs will last 70-80K miles. I just changed mine at 100K and they were still in decent shape. I’d flush the brake system when you change brake pads. There’s a common overlap of labor involved. Kind of like changing the water pump when the timing belt is changed.
A lot of the stuff listed was stuff you can do. Checking radiator fluid, transmission fluid, windshield washer fluid and tire pressure. They’re designed to be checked by the owner (easy access). The air filter is usually very easy to change yourself. Some auto parts stores will help you. They will also check your battery for free.
Find a reputable shop. Inspections are useful to spot problems but as you’re aware can also be used to drum up business.
Seems a bit high to me.
I just had my 2004 Truck and my 1994 Miata done (basically what you outlined there) and it was $180 for both cars. The truck up until this trip was going to the dealer, but that ran out. I really like my regular mechanic and trust him—and so took my truck there once the warranty ran out. So it was the 50K check and a 40k for the Miata (yes I don’t drive it much!).
Find a good mechanic you trust and take it there
But he’s not asking about doing it himself. Just because an individual can do it for less than what he’d pay a shop to do it doesn’t mean the shop’s price is a rip-off.
The prices you’ve listed may be close to what the parts would cost a do-it-yourselfer from an aftermarket source, but they are way low for what any shop would charge for this vehicle.
The engine requires European spec/synthetic oil.
The spark plugs are on the manufacturer’s schedule at 40,000 miles. Some modern plugs last for 60-100,000 miles, but not all plugs currently used are of that type.
Not all oil leaks result in spots under the car.
Cracked axle boots leak CV joint grease, which is totally separate from the oil in the final drive.
Checking the manual transmission fluid requires removing the fill plug down below, which takes a special wrench.
The only overlap between replacing brake pads and flushing brake fluid would be taking off the wheels, which doesn’t always need to be done to flush the brake fluid
I don’t know what kind of car you have, but it seems clear it’s not an Audi. Service on them typically costs substantially more than on most American and Asian cars.
I I were you I’d go to the Audi dealer and pay the nut. the reason: if your engine or transmission fails, AUDI will NOT honor the warranty, unless you have FOLLOWED the maintainance schedule exactly. And that includes oil changes-AUDIS are known to have oil sludging problems, and you do NOT want to eat a $3000 engine rebuild bill. I have a friend who has an A4, and it is an expensive car to maintain. he replaced the water pump-dealer charge is > $700!
I’m not asking him to do anything remotely technical. I don’t expect people to hire a mechanic to change a light bulb in their house and checking basic fluid levels is that easy.
The prices I quoted were with labor.
I listed a price range for the oil change to account for synthetic.
What type would that be exactly? The switch to unleaded has eliminated plug fouling. My manual called for 60K and the plugs were like brand new at that mileage.
Unless you know something about gravity that I don’t then yes, it will drip down.
Same inspection process. Either it's leaking or it's not.
If it’s not leaking then it doesn’t need to be checked. It’s not like it can get sucked into the exhaust like motor oil or leak into the radiator from an internal crack or blown head gasket.
Bleeding the brakes is part of the process. It doesn't add much additional time to completely flush the system. You attach a vacuum pump at one end and feed fluid in the other end.
It’s not what I have, its the cars I’ve worked on. There is nothing inherently bad about Audis that justifies throwing money away. Based on my experience I would expect a shop to perform all of the above at a cheaper rate.
Find an independent shop that specializes in European cars - there’s no reason to take the car to the dealer, especially if you are out of warranty.
I wouldn’t take an Audi to Jiffy Lube or Pep Boys or some generic service place like that, but you can definitely find a competent independent shop that will do it cheaper.
Then they’re way, way low. Examples:
>Replace dust/pollen filter - $20
My wholesale cost on an aftermarket cabin filter is more than that. Dealer list is about 40. Labor is likely to be 30-40.
>Replace air cleaner filter - $20
Again, the part alone costs more than that.
>$120 for 2 hrs of labor for general inspection
I don’t know about your area, but around here the dealers and high-quality shops charge about 50% more than that.
I listed a price range for the oil change to account for synthetic.
Maybe at a really cheap place.
What type would that be exactly?
Conventional plugs - non-platinum, non-iridium, etc. - the kind that many manufacturers recommend be changed at 30,000 miles.
The switch to unleaded has eliminated plug fouling.
Which is why the above plugs have an interval of 30,000 miles instead of 10-15,000 like they did with leaded gas.
My manual called for 60K and the plugs were like brand new at that mileage.
What does your manual have to do with this car?
Unless you know something about gravity that I don’t then yes, it will drip down.
Not always. Sometimes it leaks into a place where it pools up, then dries or evaporates before it can drip.
Same inspection process. Either it’s leaking or it’s not.
Inspecting for a cracked axle boot will not address all the places that final drive oil can leak.
If it’s not leaking then it doesn’t need to be checked. It’s not like it can get sucked into the exhaust like motor oil or leak into the radiator from an internal crack or blown head gasket.
It can leak into the bell housing and be absorbed by the clutch and/or pool up for a while before causing a visible leak.
Bleeding the brakes is part of the process.
Says who? I’ve been repairing cars professionally for 35 years and have never heard anyone contend that bleeding the brakes was part of replacing pads.
There is nothing inherently bad about Audis that justifies throwing money away.
Bad, no. Expensive, yes. They just aren’t as cheap to work on as a lot of other cars.
Based on my experience I would expect a shop to perform all of the above at a cheaper rate.
An good independent shop might be somewhat cheaper than a dealer. A shop that’s much cheaper is likely to lose their a$$ or screw something up. I suspect your experience doesn’t include late model European cars.
For the age and the mileage, and given that it’s your first service you have to pay for, I’d say it’s a steal! Recalculate how much that thing has cost you in maintenance per mile. Sounds like a very reliable car to me.
Then again, I’m used to throwing money at slightly ageing Italian cars. What your Audi has in reliability, an Alfa Romeo makes up for in style. But it won’t drive 35,000 miles on a maintenance budget of under $1,000. Hell, my latest project has more than that poured into it at about 5,000 kilometers (not from new, though).
Looking at my original post you are right. I was not clear. I expect the owner to change the air filter. The pollen filter may be a challenge so that price is low.
I’ve never taken a car to a mechanic that charged $120/hr so we’re in disagreement. But I’ve also never taken a car to a dealer except for warranty work. Too many bad experiences by friends. If it’s transmission related I go to a transmission shop. If it’s general service items I go to a local shop that I have a solid history with.
I don’t understand why you would flush brake fluid separately from a brake job. I’ve always done it when I change brakes, it’s just common sense. Opening up the bleed valve makes it easier to expand the calipers. Otherwise you’re forcing grunchy fluid back up the line. I’ve had to change out master cylinders because they were eaten up by corrosion so that’s why I flush the fluid. Normal brake service intervals seem to work nicely.
Transmission fluid leaking into the clutch housing sufficient to coat the clutch will collect at the bottom and show up as a general leak. The same applies to the engine crank seal. All this is in addition to the fact that a tranny low on fluid will make noise long before it becomes a problem. If this needs to be done to back up a warranty then I would shop around for quotes.
While it wouldn’t surprise me that Audi’s have some quirks I don’t see them as mechanically less reliable than other manufacturers. If Dealers are getting $120/hr shop rates then I would certainly get a 2nd quote.
Mcgiver both your parts and labor prices are way low. First off you live in Ohio, the OP is in Baltimore. There is a huge difference in labor rates between the two areas. I spent the weekend teaching at a seminar for independent shops from around the country. At one of the round table discussions the various shop owners from around the country gave their location, their labor rate, and what the local dealer charges. The shops from the Northeast all charged at least $100/hour, and up to $140/hour. The local dealers were either slightly higher ($10-$20/hr) or the same.
Some of the shops in the middle of the country were at $69-$80/hour.
So in Baltimore a two hour inspection will cost no less than $200 and probably more like $250.
Your estimates on parts prices are laughable low for quality parts.
I don’t have Audi parts prices available on line, but just for giggles let’s look at another German Car of about the same category, a 2003 BMW 325i
Cabin air filter, choice of two the standard filter is $37.14, the charcoal impregnated filter is $49.07 your guess? $20.00
Spark plugs Choice of three, $18.10, $11.95 or $4.25 Each Your guess? Not needed. Who knows more about this engine, the guys that designed it at Audi, or some guy on the internet?
Oil and filter Filter $10.58 Today I saw a six pack of Mobil 1 oil for $30 at Costco. With no mark up on the oil, we are at $40.58 for parts for the oil change. Your guess? S20.-$40.00
Engine air filter $20.40 your guess $20. (actually pretty close except for labor)
Bottom line is Gary T is right, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Back to the OP. Considering your location and the work being done, I consider this estimate to be fair and in the ball park. IMNSHO you are not being ripped off. I actually think it is a bit lower than it would be here in LA.
??? You said, and I repeated, “$120 for 2 hrs of labor.” That’s 60/hr. In my area, the dealers and high-quality shops are in the 80-100/hr range.
While you’re guessing with a part from another car the actual Audi price is $12.88. From the discription I read it looks like a 30 minute job at the most.
It’s not a degrade to failure part. Spark plugs don’t stop working overnight. They slowly degrade over time. If your gas mileage is steady then the plugs are OK. It’s just that simple. There are very few parts you can make a statement like that but spark plugs are one of them.
Actual price in the Philadelphia area including 5 quarts of synthetic oil, filter, top off of fluids and tire pressure checked. $42.95. Their shop rate is $69 per hour.
Actual cost - $8.83 Fram CA9409.
this is all routine maintenance items so it makes sense to find a shop that charges the lowest hourly rate. You’re quoting $100-$140 an hour. My link shows $69.
So lets break it down:
$69 X 2 hrs = $138 - Visual inspection of engine for leaks including pulling tranny sight plug, exhaust inspection, tie rods etc…
$42.95 – oil change with filter, 5 quarts of synthetic oil, fluids checked and topped off, tire pressure checked.
$8.83 – Air filter,
$12.88 pollen filter, 1/2 hr labor including visual check of battery = $47.38
Spark plugs - $22 + 1 hr labor = $91 A waste of money if the mileage is unchanged but I included it.
Brakes flushed – $20 + 1 hr labor $89
Total $417.16
Bottom line, this is all routine stuff and none of the parts are high tech. Get a 2nd estimate from a reputable shop.
$60 was what I paid for labor around 2005 in my area. I found $69 rate for an East Coast area. If we were talking about something complicated like an engine tear down I would spend a lot of time searching for a good shop but this is low tech. I think there’s realistic room for $75 to $100 in savings from the work quoted. To me, that’s enough of a savings to seek a 2nd opinion.
Here’s an easy and quick way to probably save money. Go to the dealer’s web site and sign up for their email newsletter. I bet you’ll get a “10% off any service” coupon every month.
That, my friend, is an easy way to get your car messed up. Even with routine maintenance. I don’t suggest making a point of seeking the most expensive shop in town, but I’d be scared to use the cheapest shop in town, especially with a European car.
If you want knock-off aftermarket parts, sure. The genuine Audi #4B0-819-439-C filter goes for $35.90.
Sure, you could stuff the cabin air filter housing with socks and not affect the engine, but I just wanted to point out that you’re using different parts than what the dealership uses.
Thanks everyone. After reading all the responses, I’ve decided to go ahead and have my local dealership do it. I just called another area dealership and they wanted $650, so at least the geographically closer one is slightly cheaper.
I really need this car to continue being reliable for another 4 yrs, so probably best not to mess around.