another car maintenance question

Factual Questions
1

Hello all,

I bought my first car about six months ago, a 98 Honda Accord with ~83,000 miles on the engine. I am a 21 year old female person who knows NOTHING about cars… well, I know enough to be able to check my fluid levels and top them off, but that’s about it. The car I drove before this was an '84 Nissan Sentra, which my father maintained until it finally kicked the bucket, at 350,000 miles, heh. I’m on my own with the new car, though. What I mean is, somebody mentioned in the other “tune up” thread that most of the work can be done yourself, but there’s no chance I’m going to be able to do any of the work.
I just hit the 90,000 mile mark, and it’s time for the regularly scheduled maintenance. How much should I expect to pay for this service, and what should it entail? I know it’ll depend on whether or not anything specific is wrong with the car, but typically speaking, what should I expect to get for my money? I have zero desire to get screwed by a mechanic, especially considering that I’m young, and female, and if he started telling me that the ignition timing on the left-threaded spark widget was off and was going to cost $75 to fix, I wouldn’t have any idea he was lying. You know what I mean.
I asked around for price quotes and got several different answers, ranging from $75-$350. Help me, dopers!

Peace,
~mixie

2

Based on my recent 60K service on a 98 Corolla, I would say that $75 is way too low (they’ll probably “discover” a whole bunch of “unexpected” things – “Golly, ma’am, turns out you need new spark plugs, too!”) and $350 is maybe a little high, but not out of the ball park. Call the Honda dealer and ask how much the 90K service costs; that’ll give you a good starting place.

Good recommendations for mechanics can be found here.

3

I can’t comment on an Accord, but $200-$400 would be typical for the cars I’ve owned… ('93 Oldsmobile, '92 Mercury, '78 Mercedes).

4

Your manual that came with the car should tell you what work to get done at what intervals. Take a looksee in there.

You’re getting close to when “major” items should get done for preventitive maintenence, namely the timing belt. However, you’ll probably get the spark plugs, wires, air and fuel filters changed at this milage in addition to possibly a cooling flush.

By the way, excellent choice for an automobile. You really couldn’t have done much better for a car as long as it’s in good shape!

Good job! :slight_smile:

5

OUCH!! For “scheduled maintenance??” What did you have done?

MixieArmadillo, if you’re talking about oil change/tune-up stuff (the usual), let’s put it into perspective. My ex drove a '95 Accord 4-cyl. automatic; I used to do that sort of maintenance myself in about an hour. Total cost: around $20-25. (Includes 4-5 qts. of top-quality oil, oil filter, 4 new spark plugs, some effort and cursing on my part, which I threw in for free.) It should be noted that I’m in the habit of buying motor oil by the case, and on sale; the spark plugs and oil filter are sometimes on sale, but even at regular price, you’re looking at maybe $2/plug and $3 for the filter. If you need an air filter, that would add a few dollars to the total. Were I there with you, I could teach you to do these things, and you’d be quite surprised how easy they are to do! Imagine how cheap places like JiffyLube buy their supplies! (I’m in the wrong bid’ness…)

At 90K miles, your Accord shouldn’t really need much else, although I’d recommend that someone qualified look at your brakes.

6

Oh, as for price.

That really depends on what is done. If all of the above things on my list, several hundred dollars is quite possible… maybe even $500-$700+

The timing belt is the real biggie in this list. It is a really good idea to get done though if it is at its recomended replacement interval. When one fails, you’re more or less shopping for a new engine.

Otherwise, a really thorough “tune up” (god, I hate that phrase) will run you at least a couple hundred bucks, if not more.

The safest way to make sure you’re not getting screwed is to get a few quotes and make sure they are all in line. If they’re not, don’t be scared to ask them why.

7

While I am an automotive technician IANAHT, so what follows is just what I have picked up from friends and associates.

Most cars (including Hondas) use a 30K interval for major services. So at 90K in addition an oil change, I would expect new spark plugs, air filter, possibly fuel filter. Plus whatever else Honda recomonds. I’m guessing a couple of hundred dollars for a 90K

Now one more thing and this is serious I assure you. Your Honda uses a rubber timming belt. Rubber belts degrade over time and eventually break. On a Honda engine when the belt breaks the pistons and valves collide. :eek: In the industry this is referred to as an interference engine. When the pistons interfere with the valves it is a very expensive repair. The cylinder head would have to be removed, valves replaced, and possibly the guides for the valves also. This is not cheap! The trick is to change the belt before it breaks. I do not know what the interval for a Honda belt is. I will guess it is somewhere between 60-90K CHECK YOU OWNERS MANUAL. Check any maintence records that you may have gotten with the car. See if you can find a timing belt listed anywhere. Make sure when you take the car in that the T-belt is inspected. if there is any doubt about its condition change it.

8

TBone2 – which happened to be my buddy’s nickname in college (long story) – you mention changing your ex’s oil. My question is how to empty the old stuff out of a car with very little ground clearance (i’ve got a 96 acura integra). You’re right about the discrepancy in parts costings for the businesses and from the manufacturers.

9

It occurred to me that might be the case, so as I was waiting for responses I trotted myself out to the glove box and retrieved said book to page through.

**

The last mechanic I talked to said they used to change the timing belt at 90k but with later model Hondas usually around 109k, does this sound like good advice?
**

Heh, thanks. I did an insane amount of research before buying. Imagine you’re a young pup girl going out to buy a car with ZERO prior knowledge other than anecdotal recommendations. Yeah, I armed myself with information. Amazingly, I also got it for almost three grand under bluebook value, buying a lease return through a used auto network owned by my credit union. It’s in as perfect condition as a car with 83,000 miles on the engine could have been, and came with ghetto-riffic tinted windows :wink: .

Peace,
~mixie

10

Get yourself a small (2-ton) floor jack and raise the car a few inches. Or, if you want to go really cheap, run the car up on some 2x6 boards laid flat. You should be able to reach both the drain plug and the filter from either the front of the car or one side just behind the front wheel. And that’ll give you enough clearance to slide a drain-pan (they make 'em just for this purpose) under the car to collect the used oil. (I just measured the height of mine, and it’s less than three inches.) (The drain-pan, that is.)

Once you’ve drained the oil and completed your oil change, you should be able to get rid of the old stuff at your local Tuffy or Midas or JiffyLube, usually for free.

11

First of all, invest in a Haynes Manual for your car. They are inexpensive and should be easy to find. Honda Factory Service manuals are good, but much more expensive.

Why get the manual when you will not be doing the work yourself? To make it easier to tell when a mechanic is feeding you a load of crap. In the manual, there will be maintenance schedules, recommended things to check if something seems amiss, and tolerances for various parts before they need to be replaced (i.e. brake pad thickness).

Also, the manuals come with extensive pictures, so you will be able to recognize parts, and maybe even get the courage to do a few simple things yourself…

For basic repairs:
Oil Change: every 3 months or so and between $20 to $40 depending on the type of oil you put in (dino vs. synthetic)

Tune-up: These vary from place to place - depending on if you need new wires or not. Even with new wires, $175 should be tops. Better is to get a mechanically-abled buddy, buy him the parts (~$65-$85 for plugs and wires), and a few beers afterwards.

Brakes: Take your car to at least 2, prefereably 3 places for a “free” brake inspection. Get them to write down what they say needs to be replaced, what the current measurements are, and how much they want to fix it. Afterwards, take the three estimates and compare them - do they all report the same thing? How close are the current measurements to the recommended minimums listed in the Haynes manual? Then, take your car back to the place you felt most comfortable.

Timing Belt: Replace ahead of time. This is definitely preventative maintenance (is the engine non-interference? doesn’t matter - it could screw something else up). A broken timing belt can really screw up an engine. The good news is, since the engine will be in a million pieces anyways, you can replace a bunch of other parts such as the water pump for basically just the cost of the part. I don’t know what the cost of this repair would be. Approx $500? It is all labour for this one.

Clutch: If you have a manual transmission and the clutch goes, you could be looking at $500 - $700. All for labour. For a clutch repair, I recommend going back to the dealer, but that is just me. You will pay a premium, but I have found it to be worth it.

I will mention again that you should get the Haynes manual and be familiar with it - even if you are not mechanically inclined. A while ago, I posted a story about getting some brake work done on my car that could have ended up costing me a lot more had I not been informed enough to realize that they were either trying to screw me, or were grossly incompetant (the post was lost in the board crash). It might not be an exciting read, but it will save you money and more importantly, give you piece of mind.

Good luck!

12

Sweet Pineapple-flavored Jeebus! $500 to replace a belt? I hate hearing that maintenance is going to cost more than twice my monthly car payment, heh.
Sadly, I tried and tried to find a '98 or newer Accord with a manual transmission, but finally had to settle for an automatic when Ellen (the '84 Nissan) finally decided for herself that it was time to go to the great salvage yard in the sky.
Thanks for the manual recommendation though, I’ll check it out today =).

Peace,
~mixie

13

I could be talking out of ass on this one - the $500 is just speculation on my part (meaning it could be more less :slight_smile: or more :eek: ). But I don’t think it is that far off. The parts itself is not expensive, but labour is (figure a minimum of 5 hours @ $60 per, plus parts and tax). As I say, there are a bunch of things you would want to replace at the same time since the engine is already torn apart so you do not have to pay the labour again.

On the bright side, on a cost per mile of service it is a good repair. You will not have to worry about it again for a few years.

14

I think you are misreading mske’s post. A t-belt alone should run between 1-2 hours labor plus the cost of the belt (probably under $50). Call a couple of Honda dealers and get prices. Then you will have a basis to compare. Do not compare hourly rates.* Get prices on the complete job.
[*true story. I worked for a dealer that charged $65/ hour for labor. down the street another shop charged $45 per hour (and made damn sure every customer knew that they only charged $45 to our 65/ hour. However,a job that we charged 1 hour for the shop down the street charged 2 hours for. Let’s do the math 1X $65= 65. 2X45=90. Quick who was cheaper? Anyone? Bueller?]

15

Good stuff! What did it say?

**
Sounds possible. The manual should give a definitve number for you, go by that.

**
Good deal! They really are a terrific auto. If I were to purchase another car (new or used) and Accord would absolutely without question be in the top 3. They just oooze quality. To get one at a substantial cut under BB is quite a feat.

As for the prices for getting the aforementioned timing belt replaced. I would be quite suprised if they charge you less than 5 hours labor. Without looking at bookprice for the car, if memory serves (both my mother in law and my mother have one) quite a bit of time will need to be taken just getting to the belt. So, it will not be an inexpensive proposition. The good news though, is that you won’t have to do it again for another 100K miles or so. Its a pretty low maintence part. Another thing to look at is to get the accessory belt(s) (the belt that drives your power steering/AC/water pump/Alternator) changed at the same time. They are “relatively” inexpensive and can leave you stranded if they go. Your mechanic can probably give you a good idea of its condition.

As far as getting the previously mentioned Hayne’s manual. It’s an excellent idea if you plan on doing any regular maintence yourself. However, if you don’t have any inclination to do any work on your car whatsoever, I don’t think I’d bother. However, it can be interesting reading and if you read it enough you may get enough courage to change your oil someday.

Maybe instead of buying one, a well stocked public library would probably have a copy.

Good luck!

16

$500 for a clutch?

Uh-uh.

I think $100 is more like it, and unlike a timing belt, if you have some reasonably mechanically inclined friends, you could probably do yourself.

17

I wasn’t involved in any discussion of a clutch, but I would be very, very suprised if you could even buy the plate and disk for a 98 Honda for $100. Let alone the throwout bearing, pilot bearing, oil and any other assorted materials.

Being a FWD, it is not “easy” to drop the transmission. You’ve got to disconnect and move lot of crap just to get to it. Hell, I’d think that $500 would be conservative.

But, since it sounds like she has an Auto, its not even an issue.

18

Average replacements costs are near the bottom of

Main page is http://auto.consumerguide.com/

19

Well, most belts are much cheaper, but the timing belt is burried in there a bit and not very easy to replace. The belt that you can see is cheap to swap out. Another thing that drives up the cost is that on Hondas, they often replace the water pump along with the timing belt. This is not a rip off - it’s because the timing belt drives the water pump, and if the pump siezes up, the timing belt goes, and if the timing belt goes, so does the engine. Hondas aren’t known for too many design flaws, but I think this is one of them.

20

90,000 mile service lists typically include oil change w/filter & lube, spark plugs, air filter, sometimes fuel filter, engine valve adjustment if applicable, automatic transmission service, usually engine coolant flush & fill, sometimes brake fluid flush & fill, tire rotation, and inspection of a number of items (drive belts, coolant hoses, brakes, CV boots, steering, suspension, etc.) that may or may not need work. It’s not just an “oil change and tune-up.”

While many shops offer a “package deal” price, it’s not necessary to have it all done at once. The various individual items can be done separately. I worry about package deals because you pay for the whole package whether you need it or not. For example, your transmission may have been serviced 10,000 miles ago and not be due for another 20,000, but if transmission service is in the package it’s going to be done again anyway.

There’s also the possibility that you may need something that’s not on the list. For example, Honda recommends coolant flush & fill at 45,000 miles, then every 30,000. But it might not have been done at 75,000, making it past due.

If you have service records for the car, that’s a big plus. They can be reviewed to help determine what should get attention now. If you don’t have those records, then I suggest that rather than simply get a 90,000 mile service done somewhere, you have a repair shop inspect the car for all maintenance items and prepare a prioritized list of needed and suggested services. Then you can make informed decisions about what to do when.

As far as being treated fairly, it’s much more efficient, productive, and easy to learn how to find a competent, ethical shop than to try to gain enough mechanical knowledge to be able tell if they’re doing something wrong. My post in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143255&highlight=operations) has some suggestions on doing so.