Tips on Purchasing a Honda....

Factual Questions
1

I have found my fream car. 1996 Honda Civic Type-R. It has 82,000 miles on it, and it is going for $6500. Right now I am working on getting a loan for it, and everything is going well. But before I make any drastic, or sudden decisions, I would like to know what kind of experiences people have had with my particular model, or any Honda Civic from that model year.

I have heard several things about the timing belt needing to be replaced at, or around 80,000 miles. What exactly is this part, why does it need to be replaced, and have any of you done that, and if so, what was the pricing like?

This car has a chrome cold air-intake already installed. Are there any problem I could run into because of this, and what kind of beneficial results might I run into?

It has pretty dark tint. The tint is DOT approved, but if I were to get pulled, what would be the procedure in telling the officer this? Do I need to have some ort of valid certification saying that it would be ok for me to have it, or would he take my word for it?

What signs can I look for to see if it has been wrecked? I plan on running a CarFax on the vin, but I understand that sometimes visual ques may be there, and I should definetly look for those, regardless of my carfax report.

Finally, this car has manual locks, and windows. How hard, or should I say exspensive, would it be to have these replaced fo rthe more favorable (in my case) power windows and locks? I would definetly want an alarm on the car, and it is my understand that it is a bit ahrder to set up an alarm without power locks.

Any help, or tips, or personal experience you can give me would be greatly appreciated…

2

OK it was a 1990 civic not a 1996 but they arent that much different. If the timing belt is an original then CHANGE IT NOW!! You do not want that belt to snap. This happened to my SO as she was driving on a motorway. The belt snapped and flew around the engine. The engine was ruined. She had to get a new one. You have been warned.

3

Huh? That sounds rediculous. The timing belt is a piece of rubber. It cannot possibly fly around with enough force to damage steel. Some cars use chains (like a bike) instead of rubber but I don’t think the Accords are like that.
When buying a used car, also have it checked out by a mechanic. The timing belt, if it is original, probably is due to be replaced. You may even be able to do it yourself.
I once had a timing belt snap on a chevette while I was doing about 65 on the highway. No big deal. A $15 part and some tools and time and it was fixed.

4

We had a '93 Honda Civic and the only reason we sold it was that we wanted a 4-door car for the baby seat. It was a great car–I think most Hondas and nearly all civics are. We sold ours for around $6000 two years ago so it sounds like you’re getting a pretty good deal since yours is 3 years newer.

You might try tracking down the usenet newsgroup for Hondas. There are people on there who knows what years/models have particular quirks (if any). You could float that question on there. Nothing like a bunch of car nuts to get your question answered!

Also, I know our Honda dealership supplied to us (at our request) a huge computer printout showing every service visit we made. That made it easy for us (and the new owner) to know exactly what had been replaced when.

5

But a snapped timing belt can damage an engine. Some engines with higher compression ratios are interference engines, meaning that the piston at top dead center is closer to the head than the opening distance of the valves. In normal running operation, this isn’t a problem, as the valves are never open when the piston is at TDC. However, if the engine is mis-timed (like when the timing belt comes off), the piston may strike the valves, often doing enough damage that it’s cheaper to replace the entire engine.

I have heard that Hondas are interference engines, but I don’t know if that’s true or not. I snapped the timing belt in my '89 Civic and had no valve damage, but maybe I was lucky.

6

Last time I checked, Honda didn’t release any Type R
cars in the US, I hope you aren’t being charged more for the $4 sticker.

7

The first thing you may want to consider is the that the dealer or indivual you’re dealing with is most likely misrepresenting the model of car. The Civic Type-R has never been sold in North America and the handful that are imported here have been purchased and modified at great cost. So figure out what model you’re actually looking at before you consider the price.

If you’re lucky, the car is a Civic Si or Canadian Civic Si-R.

–
michael

8

Oops, I was going to add a response to the OP:

The timing belt connects the driveshaft (which moves the pistons) to the camshaft (which moves the valves). Thus, it times the valves so they open at the correct place in the combustion cycle, letting air in and exhaust out at the correct time. I’d replace the timing belt pretty soon. Even if the '96 is not an interference engine, the belt is due to break, and when it does you’ll have to replace it then, anyway. Replacement cost is, I think, around $350, mostly labor. On my Civic, they replace the water pump at the same time, because the water pump is in the same location and wears out about the same time. Add around $80 for that.

My Civic (the one I snapped the timing belt on long ago) currently has 340,000 miles on it. So yours is still a youngster.

9

Mrs. H and I have owned three Hondas between us. They’re great cars and if you treat them well (read regular oil changes) they’ll easily go 200k miles.

Re: the timing belt. This is a maintenence thing that must be done on all cars. Do not put this off. Have them change the valve cover gasket (or is it the head gasket?) at the same time. If it snaps and you are unlucky, you can damage your valves. The valves are precision bored and any slight nick will screw them up. Maybe the dealer can throw this in as part of the deal.

Get an independent machanic to check out the car. The dealer should not have a problem with this. Make sure he checks the compression. Also, run the VIN and make sure that the car has not been in any accidents. I think that your car insurance company can help with that.

Haj

10

As far as inspecting the car for damage I found this article on Yahoo:
Inspecting a used car very helpful. For the timing-belt and replacing the locks etc, you can call a Honda dealership and ask them. Just pretend that you already own the car, and ask them how much it’ll cost for the various jobs.

I got the timing belt replaced on my 90 Accord about a couple of years ago. Same story as zut: it was on the expensive side because of the labor, but apparently it’s better than having it break with the engine running.

11

As other people have said this is not ridiculous. The timing belt and damaged 9 of the 16 valves in the engine.

12

That last post should of course have said “the timing belt snapped”

13

Honda’s are very strong cars. However, it sounds like you’re buying it from some kid or young person that my have driven the bag off it (Type “R” stickers, chrome intake, tinted windows). If you are not mechanically inclined yourself, I strongly recomend an inspection by a qualified mechanic.

As far as I remember, that is an intereference engine. If it is an original timing belt, you will definetly want to replace it. Actually, if he hasn’t replaced it yet that should set an alarm off… that tells you how well he really maintained it.

[nitpick]

Make that crankshaft to camshaft(s) and I’d agree with you :slight_smile:

[/nitpick]

To sum up, good cars. I love Hondas. But get the damn thing inspected. A car thats had a hard early life isn’t going to live a long life without a lot of money.

14

I second what the folks who posted before me have said about the timing belt, the “Type R” designation, and having a mechanic check it out before you hand over any dead Presidents for the car.

Regarding the windows and locks: if it’s that much of a big deal for you, don’t buy the car. Swapping in power windows and locks is neither easy nor inexpensive. I’ve added power vent windows and locks to a couple of '60s-'70s era Cadillacs and it’s a real PITA job when the connections, actuators, regulators, and so forth are already there. Without that stuff, you’re looking at a helluva lot of work there.

Besides that, if there’s no connections on the wiring harness for locks and windows on non-power Civics, you’re in for a lot of money. You’ll need a new wiring harness and they aren’t cheap either. And they’re no fun to install.

I’d say keep looking, but it’s not my money.

Just my $.02

Zappo

15

On certain cars the timing belt also drives the water pump and/or the alternator.

The bearings on these should be replaced too after such a mileage, unless it is cheaper to get reconditioned replacements.

The bearings have been known to seize, in the case of the water pump the impellor itself can seize, which can then snap the timing belt.

I have seen this happen on Ford Escorts and on Renault Clio(dunno what the US designation is) and the result is a tangle of valves and pistons which meant that it was cheaper to replace the entire engine.

This is because the crankshaft has to be taken out and measured for flat spots on the journals, the crankshaft bearings have to be replaced and the cylinder head has to be either rebuilt(which may not be possible if the damage is severe enough) or replaced. All this involves large labour costs and is only economic if you can do the work yourself.

Some garages will recommend replacement of timing belts far earlier than the manufacturers specifications since it does not add that much to the cost of a major service.

16

yeah, I am sorry about that. I looked into it a bit, and the car is actually a Civic DX Coupe. It has Type-R badging because the last owner liked it, I guess.

These timing-belts seem very interesting to me. I’m not sure if it has been replaced yet or not though. I am taking the car to a mechanic this afternoon to have it checked out. I am thinking about taking it to the local Honda dealership, but I think they might have a biased opinion about the car.

It raelly is something I am willing to sacrifice in order to have this car. I think it would be nice to have power windows and locks, but I really couldn’t care too much less. If it is that exspensive, forget about it…

Oh yeah, one more quick question… do the clutches typically take a little more pressure to apply them in Hondas, or is taht just this car? It is not hard to press, but it seems like I have to press it a bit farther down to achieve anything…

17

Because of this;

this;

becomes pretty useless (and is really only useful when combined with other performance modifications anyway). The Civic DX has the base engine. The car is strictly economy class. Don’t buy the car thinking you will be outracing BMW M5s and the such…

And keep shopping. There are so many Civics out there that it should not be too difficult to find another 1996 DX. Escpecially one that has not suffered the pains of a kid trying to make it into something it is not (and never can be)…

18

I would pass on this car. Any jackass that would put Type R stickers on his non-Type R car has prolly driven the hell out of the poor thing. If you have to buy this car you can add power windows/locks it isn’t hard. There are kits that you could buy to do this. BTW true type Rs will have red hood and trunk emblems instead of the crome ones on everyday Hondas. If you really want a Type R, buy an Acura Integra which are sold in the US. Last thing check the brakes, tread wear, and axles/CV joints.

19

iirc, if you have to push the clutch in farther, that means it’s fresher than the clutch you may be used to, where you have to let the clutch out quite a bit, before it grabs (which means it’s somewhat worn)
maybe the previous owner drove the car so hard, that he went straight through the original clutch, and had to replace it. Then again, maybe it is the original, and it’s really good… a mechanic would have to tell you…
my 90 Civic DX has about 320,000km (192,000miles), and I’m still running the original clutch, and it’s still strong…

Glenoled