I can’t imagine any indoor range allowing black powder and I wouldn’t shoot at any range that did allow it. Strictly an outdoor proposition here and Phoenix has plenty of places to shoot outside. Yeah, burning charcoal and sulfur is best done in the well ventilated out of doors.
I don’t doubt his guns are in good shape but I’d wager he’s an occasional shooter. Folks involved in CAS shoot often and a lot when they do. Iused to tear my guns down completely every match but no one I know does that all the time. With the Colts I remove the barrels and clean the bore, wipe the chambers with a bore mope and clean any exterior fouling on the frame and hammer with rags. A little ballistol/water on/in things keeps it corrosion free until I do a complete teardown every few months and completely dissasemble the gun. Even then. I clean with household sprayer full of ballistol/water and rags rather than immersing it.
15 grains? Pfff, mouse fart loads Just teasing though I usually load 25 in my navies. In competition I have to hit a steel target hard enough so that the three spotters wearing ear plugs can hear it or I get a penalty for every miss. As it is edge hits with .36 caliber balls are often counted as misses.
The mouse fart ephithet is what we apply to folks shooting mild, .38 special, smokeless, low recoil loads in pistol and rifle. Such gamers are looked down upon bu those of us who use full power, historically correct calibers. The report is so quiet that the bullet striking the target is the only thing you hear th rough earmuffs. I want a gun that gives an earch shattering BOOM! with enough hellfire and brimstone to burn the paint off the damn target even if I miss.
Put some Zig-Zag cigarette rolling papers on a piece of aluminum foil.
We them with a potassium nitrate solution. (To make the solution, dissolve “saltpeter – potassium nitrate --” in water.)
Allow the papers to dry.
Put a ball on top of a brass (or whatever) tube.
Apply Glue Stik to one short edge and one long edge of the paper.
Wrap the paper around the ball so that the ball is glued to the short edge and the long edge holds the paper together as a tube.
Invert the ball/paper/brass rod and pour in a measured amount of blackpowder.
Remove the brass tube and trim excess paper, leaving enough paper to fold over.
Apply a little bit of Glue Stik to the end of the tube and pinch it together.
Apply Glue Stik to the “flap” and fold it over.
I understand some people don’t nitrate their nitrated cigarette papers (cigarette papers are already nitrated), but I want to make sure it it fully consumed. I know some people just put the ball on a wooden rod to form the cartridge. I think it’s better to pour the powder into a metal tube than a paper one. Some people stress that you need to prick the end of the cartridge through the nipple hole to ensure ignition. I’ve never had any trouble not doing it. (One guy who pricks the ends does not nitrate his cigarette pepers.) If you soak your papers in potassium nitrate, you can shake off the excess when it dries and use it again.
Of course, blackpowder is an explosive. Neither I, nor The Straight Dope, nor the Chicago Reader, nor anyone else but you can be held responsible if you want to “roll your own” combustible cartridges. You are assumed to be a responsible adult. Act like one.
I don’t know how you feel about blackpowder substitutes, but there’s a new one called CleanShot from Hodgdon (I think). It loads by volume, not weight, just like Pyrodex, but it’s supposed to be non-corrosive and easier to clean up (less fouling). I’ve been told you get blackpowder-like smoke, but it doesn’t have that authentic sulferous smell.
This is not an endorsement, since I’ve never tried it, but it might be something to look into.
Cleanshot is popular among cowboy shooters who live where they can’t buy true black powder but where I’ve seen it the cost is almost three times what I pay for BP in bulk.
BP fouling is not a big problem with proper lubricants. In .44-40 cartridge I use a lead bullet with a groove filled with a BP specific lube called SPG. That would be sufficient for pistol but not a 24" rifle barrel so I put wax “cookies” under the bullet. I use three layers of beekeeper’s brood comb starter. It’s a thin sheet of wax embossed with a honeycomb pattern. The beeswax melts under the high temp of the BP flame and mixes with the fouling. You still get all the residue but it’s soft enough that each bullet pushes out the fouling of the previous round. With that much lube in each round I can shoot as long as I want with no falloff in accuracy without ever having to clean the bore. Without sufficient lube accuracy will fall off badly after a few rounds.
Wow. I had no idea it was so expensive. Like I said, I’ve never tried it, and now I probably never will.
I live in the Northeast (US), which means two things: the air is always somewhat damp, and most of my blackpowder experience is with rifles. I never use Pyrodex because the one time I tried ‘R’ in a flintlock I couldn’t get it to ignite. It’s GOEX FFFg all the way from here on out.
I quit shooting caplock pistols specifically because of corrosion problems. Actually, it was my semi-paranoid fear of corrosion. Every time I’d shoot my old cheap repro 1860 Army at the range I’d take the thing right down and clean it right there. It just seemed like the thing would get rust spots if I looked at it funny. [sup][sub] Don’t get me started on the springs.[/sup][/sub] I sold to preserve my sanity.
Anyway, a lot of enthusiasts I’ve met around here use Cleanshot just because it’s noncorrosive.
I guess you guys in the Southwest don’t have to worry about humidity.
Sorry you had bad luck with your '60 but Ballistol really does work. I normally have the luxury of a dry climate but have had to load and shoot in the rain several times. At Railhead last summer all my guns were soaked but I kept spraying the internals and wiping the exterior with the ballistol water mix and didn’t get any rust even though I didn’t clean them for several days.
The only place I’ve seen Cleanshot or Clearshot locally both were over $20 a pound. I wait until the buckskinner rendezvous in Phoenix to get a deal on BP and paid $7/lb for Elephant in case lots last month. The powder dealer has a tent really, really far from anyone else Goex does give better velocity with the same grade and charge as Elephant but is a moot point for my shooting anyway.
Another benefit of cleanshot is it can be used in a smokeless powder measure. BP is sensitive to static electricity and conventional wisdom holds it’s unsafe to use in a measure with a plastic hopper or other parts that can build up a charge. I load on a Dillon 650 press and have adapted a Hornady BP measure but found someone who will convert the automatic Dillon measure for BP use by replacing all plastic with metal.
I remember reading somewhere that the 1847 Walker Colt .44 was the most powerful, mass-produced repeating handgun ever made until the invention of the .357 Magnum in 1935. Can anybody verify this?
US $20 per POUND?!?!? I am never going to try it now. I pay about $85-$90 for 8 pounds of Hodgdon Clays for my skeet shells (depending on the source) and I can use that stuff for almost anything. They even print loading data on the label (yeah, I know).
and a PSA from your friendly neighborhood Exgineer –
Please never use a mechanical powder measure for blackpowder. Drop tubes and such are fine as long as you use something like brass which won’t impart a charge, but please, please, please measure your charges by hand.
The problem doesn’t stop with static charges. BP will ignite (and potentially detonate) if you hit it the wrong way. It’s actually a low grade explosive, unlike “smokeless.” Turning the crank on a mechanical measure is guaranteed to shear a grain at some point, which counts as “hitting it the wrong way.”
I’m sure you probably already knew this, but I’m nearly neurotic about safety.
Lizard - The Walker was the first true “Magnum” ever produced. It kicks like a cranky mule, and will drive a .44 round ball at least 12 inches into a block of white pine (verified by me). Thus began the American emphasis on stopping power.
The .30-30 Winchester cartridge was designed to use 30 grains of blackpowder behind a .30 calibre bullet, right? But I heard that it was never loaded with blackpowder because smokeless powder was developed commercially at the time of its introduction. Is that true? Also, can a .30-30 be loaded with blackpowder? (Not that I would because of the mess; just curious.)
I have a Winchester Model 92 made in 1897 in .32-20 caliber. I understand that .32-20 were originally loaded with 20 grains of blackpowder behind the .32 bullet. I use commercially-loaded ammunition in the 92, but I assume it’s okay to load it with blackpowder?
The .30-30 is one of those “transition” cartriges. Winchester started to develop it when BP was king, and ended up loading it with a nitrated propellant. I’ve never seen BP loading data for the .30 WCF/.30-30. I’m not aware of any (period) commercial loadings, but don’t go by my spotty knowledge.
As for your '92, if it were my rifle I’d worry more about the modern manufacture loads than the BP. Have you checked the SN? If it was really made in 1897 it might not be safe with smokeless.
Keep in mind that terms like .44-40, .45-70, and .32-20 were more markeing hype than technical reality. If you’re using newly manufactured cases (and you should) for reloading, you need to recognize that modern cases have thicker webs and stronger bases than the originals. I can’t get more than 65 grains in a new .45-70 case, and I found out a year ago that the original (cheap, weak, bases-tearing-off-on-extraction) cases didn’t hold 70 grains either.
Eh. Long winded, but you get the point. Check your loading data. If you can’t find it, try harder. Your “You are assumed to be a responsible adult. Act like one.” statement convinces me that you won’t do anything reckless. I love shooters like you.
If you are going to load brass cartridge cases with blackpowder, use a drop tube. Seriously. For some reason it works a lot better than just throwing a charge and shaking the case. Dump the charge down the tube into the case and then put the case back into the block verrrry carefully, and let it sit until you are ready to seat the bullet.
Make sure your equipment is grounded, and measure your charges by hand. If BP grains stick to the inside of the tube, STOP. Ground everything (as if you were installing a new motherboard in a computer), and carefully tap out the stuck grains.
The proper BP charge in any case is whatever you can get in there, using a drop tube, that fills the thing to the point that a properly lubricated bullet will compress the charge a tad*.
Exgineer- really, really nervous about giving loading advice over the 'net
*“tad” varies, but for the .32-20, it’s about 1/8". YMMV
Exgineer, I know that BP is riskier to handle than smokeless but hundreds of shooters use mechanical measures for it. True, there are provisions for BP such as not having any ferrous to ferrous moving parts in contact and replacing plastic with metal. Shearing grains is a non issue as BP is a mechanical mixture anyway, there are no grains as with smokeless propellant. I currently use a Hornady measure which has a cast iron body but a brass rotor and metering chamber and aluminum hopper tube.
Johnny, your '92 is probably perfectly safe with modern loads as long as it’s in good condition. The '92 design is estremely strong and all rifles were made of steel by the 1890s. SAAMI specs are to the lowest common denominator anyway. As an example there are plenty of .45-70 rifles that are strong as a .458 win mag but all factory ammo is loaded to be safe in a trapdoor springfield.
At any rate it sounds like you have a honey of a rifle for SASS if you ever want to try it. Is it a rifle or carbine? None of my CAS guns are originals but I’ve got one of the Japanese made '92s that Miroku made under Winchester license. It’s a .44-40 with 20" round barrel and crescent buttstock. It’s my second favorite rifle only because I have an Uberti made '73 with a 24" octagon barrel.
The '92 is a rifle with a 24" octagonal barrel and rifle buttstock and fore-end. (i.e., the buttstock has a crescent-shaped buttplate and the fore-end had an end-cap.)
Exgineer, care is called for in BP loading but it’s not as bad as you think. I’m looking for a direct cite but Goex says it takes between 8 and 20 joules to ignite BP. That is vastly more than you’re going to get scuffing your feet on the carpet. Fact is I don’t know if there has ever been an incident of BP being set off by static or “grain cutting” in a powder measure.
Making BP is another matter. The saying goes that every BP company has two factories, one uder construction to replace the one that just went KABOOM! The Elephant website even shows the remains of the blown up mill house where unfortunately some workers were killed. Since they they have installed remote computerized controls to save lives when the next explosion comes. Powder is ground wet to avoid this but the milling process is where most accidents occur.
Drop tubes are conventional wisdom but I don’t know anyone who uses them for pistol size catridges. A tap on the case with a fingernail or the vibration of running it up and down in a multi stage press settles it as much as a drop tube will. 1/8" is a lot of compression for a pistol size case. Any more than that and I’ll actually bulge thin walled .44-40 cases. Modern brass does have a solid head but the walls are unusually thin in that caliber. For .45-70 I will use a brass drop tube and a compression die so I don’t deform the bullet base when seating.
Just teasing though I usually load 25 in my navies. In competition I have to hit a steel target hard enough so that the three spotters wearing ear plugs can hear it or I get a penalty for every miss. As it is edge hits with .36 caliber balls are often counted as misses.