It wasn’t in an office, it was in his hotel room. Is nobody ever allowed to have sex (or masturbate near, in this case) with coworkers anymore? You’ll have to throw half the country in jail.
Why did they simply not leave? Are they children incapable of making their own decisions? No man could sit and watch a woman masturbate in her own hotel room and the claim afterwards that he was a victim.
…which is effectively “the office” for touring comedians.
As long as it’s consensual
“Half the country” is not jacking it in front of their cow-orkers.
The rest of your post isn’t even worth addressing.
The people involved were all professional comedians doing gigs at a comedy arts festival. For professional entertainers at a gig, hotel rooms frequently are where they work and network with colleagues. Professionals traveling for a gig should not have to operate on the assumption that any colleague is entitled to suddenly start behaving as though the hotel room where they’re hanging out as colleagues is a sex boudoir, just because it has a bed in it.
If they are in a consensual sexual relationship with their co-workers, sure. But “getting sexual in front of co-workers who aren’t in a sexual relationship with you and have given no indication of actually wanting to get sexual with you” does not count as a consensual sexual relationship.
I doubt very much that half the country are engaging in sexual behavior in front of colleagues who don’t want them to. If they are, well, that’s sexual misconduct and it’s not acceptable, no matter how many people are doing it.
Even if they had left immediately, his asking to whip out his dick in front of his colleagues, much less his stripping naked and actually doing so, would in itself be sexual misconduct.
Another baseless assertion. Of course it is possible for a woman to victimize a man in that way, if he’s in her hotel room as a colleague rather than as a lover, and if he doesn’t feel comfortable in the situation but for whatever reason fears the consequences of telling her to stop.
By the way, thirdname, you haven’t answered my question about whether it would be okay for your boss to come into your hotel room on a business trip and get naked and start jerking himself off in front of you. If you don’t like it but don’t want to make a fuss about it because you’re afraid of pissing off your boss, does that make it consensual?
By the way, a friendly word of advice to thirdname or anybody else reading this thread who thinks it’s perfectly okay to perform sex acts uninvited in the presence of your coworkers or employees as long as they don’t actually run away or yell at you to stop it: No, it’s not okay. If you are doing that sort of thing, you need to cut it out and not do it again.
“As long as they let me get away with it, it’s consensual” is not an appropriate criterion for sexual activity. Especially not when it involves colleagues, employees or anybody else whose professional situation you have some measure of influence over.
I don’t personally have the jerkoff and humiliation fetishes that Louis apparently does, so don’t worry about me.
Are you seriously suggesting that nobody is allowed to initiate sex with coworkers after drinking with them and inviting them into a hotel room? There are massive numbers of people who date, fuck or marry coworkers. Probably half the population has done it at least once. Do you think sitcoms such as Scrubs or The Office, which are largely about the love lives of young people working together, are actually serious crime dramas about a bunch of serial rapists?
You’re out of your mind if you’re seriously saying that anybody would take this seriously if the sexes were reversed. A couple of guys go into a coworker’s (nothing I read says he was their boss) hotel room, she announces she’s gonna masturbate. She does, they sit there, watch and laugh. Many years later they claim they were victims of sexual assault or whatever this is supposed to be. There is not the slightest shred of a chance that anyone would consider the woman guilty of anything.
I would agree. Which version says he blocked the door? The ones I saw didn’t address that (rather significant) point.
I don’t have time for a long debate with a bunch of posts that are split up into little quotes.
Nothing I read says he was their boss, he was basically their coworker. They were all comics performing at a festival. And he didn’t come into their hotel room, they came into his. And announced what he was going to do, giving them every chance to leave if they weren’t interested in watching.
As for “consequences”, it does not say anything about him threatening any consequences or even about them fearing them. But suppose they did “fear” it. Is he he guilty of assault due to threats that he never made but they imagined? If a black man has sex with a white woman and she consents, does it turn into rape if later she announces that she’s a racist who only consented because she imagined that a black man would rape her if she said no? Other people’s imagined fears create a crime? (Or is it a civil tort of sexual harassment? I’m not clear what’s being alleged here.)
When the hotel room is where they are staying for a business trip, rather than where they have already decided to consummate their torrid affair? Yes!! That is exactly what I’m saying. Good on you for finally starting to catch on.
“No harm in trying” does not apply when the person you’re making an unsolicited pass at is a co-worker. If they happen to welcome it and reciprocate your feelings, okay fine, you got lucky and I’m not about to turn either of you in to the imaginary Sexual Harassment Police.
But if they don’t happen to welcome it, your horny ass could be in big trouble, and your co-worker could feel threatened, coerced, demeaned, embarrassed or all of the above. Best not to risk doing that to your co-worker.
Very true. The difference between Louis CK’s behavior and successful workplace relationships, including ones I’ve had myself, is that neither of us suddenly sprang a sexual situation on a co-worker with whom we had only a professional relationship.
Those successful date/fuck situations typically don’t happen between casual professional acquaintances just because one of them asked for sex. They emerge gradually over time out of a sequence of conversations, low-pressure social situations, more conversations, discreet signals of mutual attraction, and finally consensual expressions of desire.
I don’t watch Scrubs or The Office, but at least I know enough not to try to learn appropriate professional etiquette from sitcoms.
Professional etiquette says that you don’t perform sex acts in front of co-workers you don’t have a sexual relationship with. Not even if you perfunctorily ask first and they laugh because they think you’re joking.
I’m not out of my mind at all. I’m not denying that there are a lot of people who share your old-fashioned opinion that any sexual situation a guy might find himself in is automatically consensual on his part because all guys always want sex.
I’m just saying that there are plenty of people, including the posters in this thread except you, who don’t share that old-fashioned opinion. And our numbers are increasing.
For one thing, your reading comprehension is seriously flawed. “Laughing off” somebody’s proposition because you think it’s a joke is not the same thing as accepting somebody’s proposition and then laughing at their behavior.
The women in this situation were upfront about what happened to them right away. It’s only many years later that the industry actually listened to them and took the situation seriously:
Your reading comprehension is getting worse and worse. I have already explained to you what I’d consider the woman guilty of, if the men in question were professional colleagues over whose careers she had some influence. I’m somebody, and there are a whole lot of other people who share my opinion.
When you say there isn’t “anyone” who would consider this sexual misconduct, what you mean is “This type of behavior is fine in the sexist culture I’m familiar with from sitcoms and traditional workplace mores, so it’s bound to be okay.” That, thirdname, is where you make your ruddy error. It’s not okay, and as these sorts of exposes continue happening it’s going to be perceived as less and less okay.
I repeat: In the real working world rather than workplace sitcoms, you shouldn’t offer sexual activity to casual professional acquaintances.
Speaking of which, thirdname, I’m still waiting for an answer to my repeated question: Would it be okay for your boss to come into your hotel room on a business trip and get naked and start jerking himself off in front of you? If you don’t like it but don’t want to make a fuss about it because you’re afraid of pissing off your boss, does that make it consensual?
It’s an irrelevant question. Nobody’s boss went into anybody’s hotel room. He wasn’t their boss, and they went into his hotel room.
I haven’t seen any allegations of accusations of “assault”. The actions in question have been described as “sexual misconduct”.
And yes, if you put a professional colleague in a situation where they could reasonably think that not going along with your sexual requests could have negative consequences for them professionally, that contributes to the harassing nature of your misconduct. Don’t do it.
Why do you seem to be so obsessed with trying to find rationales proving that it’s somehow okay for men to get away with doing sexual acts that the women involved don’t want them to do?
That’s not how sexual relationships work, thirdname. It’s not a sort of adversarial game where if one player finds a valid access code then the other player isn’t allowed to stop them from getting what they want.
If you focus instead on creating opportunities for genuine mutual attractions to develop with honest decent people without trying to harass them or take advantage of them for sexual gratification, you won’t have to worry about their accusing you of sexual misconduct.
Fine. If you went into your well-respected and influential colleague’s hotel room on a business trip at his invitation to have a drink and talk about work, and he gets naked and starts jerking himself off in front of you, would that be okay? If you don’t like it but don’t want to make a fuss about it because you’re afraid of pissing off your well-respected and influential colleague, does that make it consensual?
I’m not sure exactly how I’d feel, but I would leave, wouldn’t sit there staring and laughing while he wanked to completion, and I’m damned sure I wouldn’t go after him 15 years later, try to end his career and impoverish his children.
By the way, when these allegations happened Louis CK was a nobody. He was not famous, wealthy, powerful or “influential.”
It’s dawned on me that you don’t actually understand the phrase “laughing off”. It does not mean “laughing while somebody else jerks off”. Let me explain.
What happened when Louis CK asked to masturbate in front of the two female comedians is that they laughed at the request, because they thought he was joking.
There is no indication from the reports that they laughed while he was masturbating or otherwise encouraged him in any way.
Would you talk about it immediately after the incident? Because that’s what these women did, and they were pressured to stop talking about it so as not to damage his reputation:
Why aren’t you blaming the children’s father, Louis CK himself, for behaving inappropriately so as to endanger his career and potentially impoverish his children? Isn’t he the one (being their father and all) who ought to be responsible enough not to get into situations where other people merely telling the truth about his behavior risks ending his career?
Not really. He had already won an Emmy (and been nominated for several others) for his comedy writing, as well as having done standup on Comedy Central Presents and a comedy special on HBO, and some acting and directing gigs.
He certainly wasn’t yet a big star, but he wasn’t a “nobody” or “uninfluential” by show-biz standards.
Because that’s what these women are after, impoverishing his children! Your posts just get more laughable, it seems.
Until now, I didn’t know the ‘CK’ stood for Come King.
Hey, it’s called parody!
Taking initials and assigning some random, infantile meaning to them is not parody. I’m not sure what it’s called.
I think you nailed it with “infantile”.
I don’t know the guy too well but it seemed that was his style …
This is a somewhat-odd aside, but I just don’t get how these guys can just whip out their dicks and be coming a few seconds later onto the nearest convenient female comedian / potted plant / whatever. I know those aren’t the circumstances in most of these allegations, but a couple of stories have me wondering about the logistics of such sordidity. (Not in a doubtful way, in a dude, wtf way.)
I suppose if they are super excited. Isn’t premature ejaculation a thing?