520 murders? Fine. 521 murders? Disgusting!

The fact that he dated Margaret Cho?

I loved Kill Bill. It’s not even all that absurd, it’s just that the characters have to play by movie rules. That adds sort of a surrealist edge to it. I dig.

And even if it came about purely because QT couldn’t use a real kid, I loved the anime-style section. It was so unexpected, and it just explored another version of the same “Here’s what we need to have happen, but we’re very self-consciously playing by rules established (largely unintentionally) by what came before” concept that the movie pulls of fantastically as a larger piece.

LC

Will all you “shitheads” please stop paying to watch this loser’s films. If you don’t somebody might give him enough money to make another one. <shudder>

I’ve seen several of his films just to see what all the talk was about only to find that it was about nothing. I am a film and literature student. I “get” his stuff on all the, oh maybe two, levels that it can be “got”. It became tedious before I reached the end of the first film. It was tedious from the beginning of the second one until I finally gave up in disgust. I still cannot believe that someone could use up 1 1/2 to 2 hours worth of film and not even hint at a plot. Once I got over that I started thinking about why anyone would ever go to a second film of his. Just buy the first one and watch it over and over again. Or even a cheaper solution, you can get the same effect by sitting home and setting your Mortal Kombat game on the demo mode for two hours.

And for the other folks, please find something of substance to rant about. As long as rebellious teenagers from the ages of 10 to 50 sit and drool at the TV screen while shows like “Jackass” play there will be a market for shock film. All we can hope is that they return to the straight to video market like the “Faces of Death” series. Which by the way had a more interesting plot.

[Ralph Wiggum]
I’m Idaho!

I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I’d like to. Does that make me a shithead-in-training?

Have you actually seen the movie, Polecat? If you have, shame on you, you’re part of the problem. If you haven’t, shame on you for whining about a movie you haven’t seen and attempting to ruin other people’s enjoyment, you ignorant, contemptible shithead.

I’m not trying to slam you for disliking Quentin Tarentino (even though you’re TOTALY WRONG :wink: ), I just don’t see how both these statements can be true.

I’ll chime in here and say that things like the bloodbath sword fight in Kill Bill, or most any violent scene in the legions of slasher flicks out there, don’t really bother me, because they’re so incredibly unrealistic that it’s just goofy. Anybody with that much blood-gush upon being sword-slashed would have stroked out long before they were able to get within fifty feet of Uma Thurman’s sword or Freddy Krueger’s razor fingers. It’s all over-the-top and almost cartoony.

But the stuff that seems like it might actually happen, like the scene at the BEGINNING of Kill Bill where the bride is tortured and shot … that just freaks me out to no end. I hate realistic violence that looks like something people might really go through.

I don’t think I’ll be buying Kill Bill on DVD.

But I’ll probably see the second movie … I’d like to see how things work out.

OK, I’ll call your bluff.
Let’s take Pulp Fiction as an example just cause that is the one I have seen most recently. Give me a breif synopsis of the plot.
If that one doesn’t float your boat then pick one at random.
His script just don’t have a plot. He scetches out a few characters that he considers to be quirky and then hangs scenes on them like cheap suits. He then strings these scenes together and calls it a script. Then when somebody says, “hey that’s not a script, that’s just a bunch of loosely related scenes strung together.” his reply is, “well you just didn’t ‘get’ it.”
To which I call BS.

Wow. You think Pulp Fiction doesn’t have a plot? Actually, I’d say the plot is pretty straightforward, though it’s presented unconventionally–not all in chronological order, for instance, and divided up as four episodes instead of being presented as one unified action. The divisions let the sub-plots get a lot of play, but there’s nothing that happens in them that’s irrelevant to the main story, which is basically the story of Jules and Vincent. Jules is the more thoughtful man, and the events of the movie lead him to his redemption and decision to leave Marcellus’ employ. Vincent, on the other hand, is thoughtless, and his continued thoughtlessness kills him. All the other things that happen in the movie are either character development, or setting-up events, or are thematically related.

I guess I can see that it would be easy to be thrown off by the unconventional structure, but I don’t think it’s remotely accurate to say there’s no plot, or that it’s just a bunch of episodes that only hang together loosely.

Degrance, not that I aggree with you (loving RD, Kill Bill, PF, and 4 Rooms, though only mildly amused by Jackie Brown), but I think Miller’s point was that being a student of film/literature and being unable to see how it’s possible to fill 1.5-2 hours of film without having a plot are two mutually exclusive things.

Hell, I’d be willing to bet that anyone who’s seen more than 10 movies or read more than 20 books in their life has come accross at least one without a plot to speak of (or a shaky one at best). It’s par for the hollywood course.

My point exactly. There you summed up the entire “plot” of the movie in two senences. You could have done it in one.

One man thinks and another doesn’t, the thinker lives and the dunce dies.

Oooh, Aaah!

Give me a break. That “plot” took up maybe 15 minutes of screen time and amounted to just a couple of vignettes in a string of largely unrelated vignettes.

Many, many scenes in the movie are entirely unrelated and the only continuity is that the same actors appear in each vignette. But the same actor doesn’t even play the same role all the way through the movie. The Vincent character takes on at least three different personalities during the film as he is transplanted into different scenes obviously written at different times and originally intended to feature different characters.

This script appears to be nothing but a compilation of scenes that the writer created over the years and decided he liked but didn’t have a vehicle for so he put them in a shoe box on a shelf. Then when the shoe box got full he dumped the scenes out, added a few transitions changed the names so they were the same in all the scenes and that was it.

I found this and all the rest of this director’s films to be tedious and quasi-elitist. They pretend to great depth but all they are is moderatly obscure retellings of stock interactions, he doesn’t even knock off complete stories, with the mutilation factor cranked way up.

Degrance I suggest that you call a lawyer and sue your school for malpractice because you have no understanding of film analysis.

Apparently you’ve never seen Last Year at Marienbad or [url=“http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0085809/”]Koyaanisqatsi. Film is about communicating ideas through image and sound, period, and plot is only one of the devices by which this may be accomplished.

And your criticism of Pulp Fiction would be better received if you had the slightest shred of understanding of the narrative structure used in the film. (Hint: There are no vignettes–it’s all one story told in non-linear time).

You tell 'em, gobear.

Degrance, I think you’ve changed your point. First you said there was no plot, and in trying to prove that, challenged someone to give you a simple plot synopsis.

When you got one, you said “You can give a simple plot synopsis. See? It’s stupid.”

I don’t think that works. Besides, your “simple is simple-minded” thing doesn’t work. “Boy meets girl, boy loses girl” is a plot. A very respectable one. You can boil a lot of great movies and books down to that one line. The interest, of course, is in how the writer does it–the variations, the different incidents that lead up to the end, the different kinds of people “boy” and “girl” can be and how that affects their lives, what the implications of the specific people and events say about life and relationships. Simplicity of plot or theme is not the same as stupid, simple-minded, or non-existant plot or theme. In fact, it astonishes me that you would think so and be a serious student of literature.

Here, try this.

Man destroys himself chasing whale that injured him. That Melville. What kind of plot is that?

Boy inherits money and blows it all. Well, we all know Dickens was a hack.

Young woman hates a young man, only to change her mind and decide he’s worth marrying after all. Oh, but nobody reads Austen these days.

Of course, the king of insignificant plots would have to be Shakespeare. Two teenagers fall in love and kill themselves. A prince agonizes over whether to avenge his father’s death. A man goes mad when his daughters throw him out of the house. Overconfident in a prophecy, a man kills his king and then is killed himself. Party animal prince becomes king, reforms, and leads his troops to victory.

I could spend all day going down my bookshelf and condensing classics down to 25 words or less. I guess I’d better throw them all out, they’re not real plots.

gobear is absolutely right–there’s only one story in Pulp Fiction. It is, in fact, a very tightly constructed story. The “vignettes” of which you speak are integral parts of that single plot. You need to look past the way it’s presented. If you can only parse a story that is conventionally shown, in chronological order, with everything in its traditional place, then I think you might want to reconsider your field of study.

I can’t speak for any of his other movies–Pulp Fiction is the only QT movie I’ve seen. I can understand not liking it–that’s certainly a matter of taste. But dang, Pulp Fiction just unrelated vignettes? Were you even paying attention?

Man that prince, can’t he just accept his mother’s incestous/coerced love and live…but know, he has to go crazy and suddenly everyone dies.

Yah bastards. I set up Degrance like that, and y’all steal my thunder.

But, anyway, my basic point was that, as a “student of film and literature,” I can’t believe that you’d look at Pulp Fiction and consider it plotless, or consider lack of a plot to be a valid criticism. First of all, it has an excellent, meticulously constructed plot. You might not like that plot, that’s your perogative, but it’s certainly there. Compare it to character studies like Lost in Translation, exercises in mood like the afore-mentioned Koyaanisqatsi and its two sequels, or the early silent experimental films like Un Chien Andalou. These are all excellent movies that feature minimal-to-nonexsistent plots.

I guess if **Degrance only values front-to-back storytelling, he must really hate Citizen Kane. I mean, Welles ruins the element of surprise by revealing Kane’s death at the beginning of the movie, the story is told entirely through flashbacks of personal recollections, the film is a collection of episodes in Kane’s life that lacks a coherent plot, and the reporter never finds out what Rosebud means.

What a clinker of a movie Kane must be, huh, Degrance?

Bren_Cameron,

Imagine Jules “Pitt” Winfield’s voice:[ul]*And tell the pleasant prince this mock of his
Hath turned his balls to gun-stones… *[sup][/sup] [/ul]Hopefully Degrace can ketchup.

Yours,

Mr. B
PS: Resolved. Pulp Fiction is delightful Art, just like Moby Dick. :dubious:

PPS: I’m still trying to get over the notion that most of us are shitheads.

One of the key elements of good plot design is that it can be summed up in a single sentence.

I don’t think anyone could say The Hours didn’t have a plot. And yet it can be summed up in one line.

You don’t have to like Pulp Fiction. In fact, I don’t like the movie myself, but I do realize it’s a wonderfully well-made film.

Whoops. Degrance.

Definitely not de grace.

I don’t remember Purple Rain being like that at ALL.

Alright so I didn’t phrase my reply well, so shoot me.

The plot is stupid. It is so thin that it is hard to even call it a plot. It is more of a theme. There is no plot.

Don’t give me that whole, “it’s just a well crafted story told non-sequentially” BULLSHIT!

There is no story! There are several vignettes in the film that have little or no relevance to any other scene, whatever order you screen them in. You could remove whole scenes from the movie and not detract from the overall experience and there are only a few scenes whose removal would be noticed. You could show this movie with half the scenes removed to someone who had never seen it before and it wouldn’t matter to their experience. I just can’t see how anyone could defend this as anything other than a poor effort from a hack author who used the “NEW AND IMPROVED” technique of showing scenes out of order. A style so new that it is only 50+ years old.

If you re-edited the film into a sequential narrative you would watch it and say to yourself, “What the hell did I think was so great about that?” The movies sucks. So you are left with nothing but a gimmick movie. It would have been more interesting if he had chosen 3D as his gimmick at least you could have watched pieces of people flying off the screen as they are mutilated.