No, science by it’s nature is corrosive to religion, just as religion by it’s nature tries to corrupt science.
[/QUOTE]
No, only to those religions with a problem adjusting to facts that contradict their original assumptions. The Dalai Lama said that if science and Buddhism are in conflict, Buddhism will have to change. The Catholic Church seems to have accepted evolution, even if they are still dancing around the implications of this. Perhaps in the future, with enough discoveries, all religions will look like Reform Judaism and Unitarianism. If there are any Unitarians fighting against teaching evolution in our schools, you’ll have to point them out to me.
[QUOTE=Valteron]
In your opinion, would theists “beating people over the head with (their) views” include the message “In God we Trust” printed on millions of dollars and other documents in a country that is supposed to separate church and state?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. If anyone goes around telling people how much they love God or trust Him or whatever…I get suspicious. Don’t tell me about your love/trust for God…show me. and our government fails that test on a daily basis. The governent making any religious statement disenfranchises some and empowers other citizens. It should not be done.
[QUOTE=Valteron]
And don’t try to respond to my question with the old line that taking it off would be giving unfair advantage to atheists.
[/QUOTE]
OK
[QUOTE=Valteron]
It would be giving unfair advantage to atheists if the money carried the slogan “God does not exist” instead of “In God we trust.”
[/QUOTE]
I get suspicious of people who spend too much time trying to tell people how much they do not believe in God…so we agree here too!
[QUOTE=Valteron]
The minute we turn our backs on theists they are trying to break down the separation of church and state. Like the “hang ten” movement to hang the ten commandments in court houses and schools.
[/QUOTE]
No shit. And you should watch out for people who want to do fucked up things like that. As I have said about people on both sides who waste a lot of time pro- or anti-religion…shut up and get out there and love someone in need. If you can’t find someone, I will put you in touch with someone who can. WTF would Jesus want with granite a 10 Commandment marker?
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Now, how often has an atheist come to your door to bother you?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t ask the spiritual practice of people selling magazine subscriptions, so I can’t really answer that…
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Try telling a bunch of atheists that they should hijack three jets, and fly them into public buildings and that they will be rewrarded for this massacre of innocents by a magical father figure who will entertain them in heaven with 72 virgins. See how far you get.
[/QUOTE]
By definition the atheists would not believe in the magical father figure to begin with, so the argument is a non-starter. But I get your point.
[QUOTE=Valteron]
I think I know why I am an atheist. I do not mean to be immodest, but I recently took an IQ test and scored below genius but well above average.
[/QUOTE]
I scored similarly. Di you take your online?
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you what you are, Newcrasher!
[/QUOTE]
OK…my five best friends…
Hard atheist who is a computer programmer/sci fi nerd who has not had a date in years
Married woman who is a minister to children and organizes community events in our community and in the official “ghetto”
Minister of Worship at another large church…has a gay son he loves to death, is my Guinness drinking partner and Celtic brother
My brother who is nominally Christian but who has not been to church in years
Husband of the above minister to children who is a hard drinking/smoking partier who teaches sunday school to college kids. Athlete and generous with his wealth…
Your identity should be comprised of personality type, habits, hobbies, wants, needs, likes, dislikes, and should not derived soley from religious belief. If you are riding the fence between religion and rejection of superstition, say so. We can’t guess who you are based on your choice of companions.
Your identity should be comprised of personality type, habits, hobbies, wants, needs, likes, dislikes, and should not derived soley from religious belief. If you are riding the fence between religion and rejection of superstition, say so. We can’t guess who you are based on your choice of companions.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you what you are, Newcrasher!
[/QUOTE]
I was reponding to Valteron…
But if I begin riding any fences, I will keep you informed!
This is why some atheists cannot drop the argument. This article on CNN details an evangelist’s attempt to conceal a contribution to the fossil record because it might add evidence to evolution and contradict the Christian record of mankind’s ascent.
[QUOTE=Beaucarnea]
This is why some atheists cannot drop the argument. This article on CNN details an evangelist’s attempt to conceal a contribution to the fossil record because it might add evidence to evolution and contradict the Christian record of mankind’s ascent.
[/QUOTE]
Leakey made one mistake, it’s clear the Bishop did not evolve.
There has not been an attack on science by any of the theists in GD recently, has there? Do you see anyone here advocating Creationism? School-sponsored prayer in public schools? Leaving “In God We Trust” on our money?
To listen to some of you, a reader might think that only atheists favor separation of Church and State! It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that most of the science teachers who are working to keep Creationism out of their textbooks and out of their classrooms are theists.
Most Christians are not fundamentalists. Get over it. Open your eyes.
We are members of Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties Union and other organizations that you also support to protect your/our rights. And we don’t want people at our front doors either unless they need help. What’s more, we haven’t been knocking on your doors!
Why do you want to lump everyone together and give them a label and then assign characteristics to that group which are actually characteristics of only some members of that group?
Failure to draw distinctions breeds and perpetuates ignorance. I stopped assuming that atheists were “bad” when I was about ten years old. But I’m perfectly willing to get out my THICK label for those of you who don’t understand that there are differences among us.
[QUOTE=Zoe]
There has not been an attack on science by any of the theists in GD recently, has there? Do you see anyone here advocating Creationism? School-sponsored prayer in public schools? Leaving “In God We Trust” on our money?
[/quote]
Exactly who said theists here were the problem? The drive by creationists get their asses handed to them, and go back to their churches and evangelical boards where reason has no place.
Well, since 90 - 95% of Americans are, not too surprising. And 100% of the people trying to put evolution in schools are theists.
You should open your eyes. These fuckers are organizing, and they hate you only slightly less than they hate me.
1950s - 2000’s - Atheists! Bad!
Does the fact that liberal Christians aren’t evil excuse the evil of the fundamentalists one little bit? These people are dangerous, and it seems to me that you’re saying it is wrong to be worried about them because you might feel your beliefs are being slighted. Have you signed up for the War against the War Against Christmas while you’re at it? You poor downtrodden minority, you.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
No, science by it’s nature is corrosive to religion, just as religion by it’s nature tries to corrupt science.
[/QUOTE]
I can’t speak for everyone, but as I gain a deeper understanding of science my faith grows. Ignorance, on the other hand, is very corrosive to both religion and science.
This agnostic perceives that the atheist point of view has been argued more aggressively at the SDMB than it used to be. I suspect that Sam Harris, Dennett et al may have stirred the waters a little. As it happens, I am not bothered by these developments so far.
Apparently though, this trend hasn’t reached CNN yet. I suspect that it will.
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
I can’t speak for everyone, but as I gain a deeper understanding of science my faith grows. Ignorance, on the other hand, is very corrosive to both religion and science.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
I can’t speak for everyone, but as I gain a deeper understanding of science my faith grows. Ignorance, on the other hand, is very corrosive to both religion and science.
[/QUOTE]
In the early 19th century, the majority of religious leaders were very interested in science, which had practically reached the level of a fad, because they were certain that scientific discoveries would support their view of God and the Bible. A minority, the ancestors of today’s evangelicals, were suspicious of expecting secular discoveries to mix with faith. The age of the earth, which contradicted Genesis, was no big issue for the majority, since they felt the important thing was God and man, not how old the Earth was.
This is why Darwin was such a shock. By indicating that man was not special, he cut the legs out from the belief that science would support God. Though some of the majority eventually adapted, in ways we see in the SDMB, the failure of their prediction that science would support the Bible in the places that it mattered discredited them.
As for me, my lack of faith grows with my increased understanding of science and history.
