A blueprint for religious harmony.

Great Debates
1

ATHEISTS:

I know you have a lot of reasons not to believe. But stop trying to convince people of faith that they are wrong. And stop painting all theists as ignorant homophobe hicks. Sure some are, but bigotry and prickishness does nto discriminate for religiosity.

THEISTS:

Stop trying to beat people over the head with your views. If your God is so great, you certainly cannot fathom His “will” for yourself, let alone others.

Try this…live your life in such a way that those outside of your specific religiosity will WANT to be a part of it. You may believe you have a “Great Commission” to spread the word, but here is a something you may want to notice; people know about your “religion”. Most of those who have chosen to take a pass on it do so because they think checking your intellect at the door and becoming an “Asshat - Admiral Class” is a requirement. So fucking cut it out!

That is all.

Can we agree on this?

2

That’s not a blueprint, it’s a collection of platitudes.

3

[QUOTE=newcrasher]
Most of those who have chosen to take a pass on it do so because they think checking your intellect at the door and becoming an “Asshat - Admiral Class” is a requirement.
[/QUOTE]

I think most of those who have chosen to take a pass on it do so because they think that religion is wrong.

But it seems like what you’re saying is, we could all have religious harmony as long as nobody talks about religion.

4

I see, Captain…so…your plan is…HOLY WAR AGAINST THOSE THAT TALK ABOUT RELIGION. Smite the Religious-talkers! Destroy them, root and branch! Crush them without mercy and let the streets run with their blood!

5

[QUOTE=Lemur866]
I see, Captain…so…your plan is…HOLY WAR AGAINST THOSE THAT TALK ABOUT RELIGION. Smite the Religious-talkers! Destroy them, root and branch! Crush them without mercy and let the streets run with their blood!
[/QUOTE]

Well, yes, but to be fair, that’s really my plan for everything.

6

As a representative of Atheists I hereby proclaim we will tear down the Atheist churches, repeal the Atheist tax breaks, stop going door to door to convert theists, get rid of all the Atheist programming on TV and radio, and stop wearing our special hats and clothes. Can we keep our Darwin stickers though?

7

Atheists:

Theres no need to try to convince others that their religion/God is false, unless it will benefit them. Religion, regardless of whether God is there, benefits people ethically and emotionally.
Theists:

Theres no need to try to convince non-believers into your religion, unless it will benefit them. Trying too hard to forcibly convince people can have an opposite and detrimental effect.

8

What, atheism doesn’t benefit people emotionally and ethically? It’s certainly helped me with my rage, you bastard!

:stuck_out_tongue:

9

You know, I’ve actually been thinking a lot about this topic today, thanks to a recent CNN Paula Zahn episode which dealt with discrimination against atheists. One thing, however- her panel included two Christians and one Jew- but no actual, you know, atheist.

Their findings? Everyone will get along just fine with atheists, if the atheists will stop talking about their lack of belief in god, and stop “persecuting” theists by insisting that “Under God” and “In God We Trust” and school prayer be removed.

Is that the sort of thing you’re looking for?

10

Can’t we just be excellent to one another, or something?

11

[QUOTE=Heckxx]
Religion, regardless of whether God is there, benefits people ethically and emotionally.
Theists:

Theres no need to try to convince non-believers into your religion, unless it will benefit them.
[/QUOTE]

You just said that religion benefits people. So you’re justifying theistic proselytizing.

12

The Golden Rule

13

I’m sorry, newcrasher, I decline to participate in your proposal . When Christians stop encroaching on civil rights, I promise to keep my mouth shut. Until then, I will complain, debate, and attempt to propose alternative beliefs whenever the proper forum is available.

But I can guarantee that in 36 years I have never been vocal about atheism in real life interactions and that only nearest and dearest know my orientation. My peripheral friends, co-workers and strangers assume I am a Christian because I live in the South, and I don’t correct them, or refuse their proselytizing. I have never felt a need to convert or even share my point of view with friends or strangers unless I was certain that my companions shared my perspective.

I agree with you that there is no need to stir up trouble, make others uncomfortable, or soapbox so long as everyone is minding their own business. I promise to avoid the subject in almost all social interactions-unless there are a group of people who willingly engage in a mostly civil debate like say… on a message board. I will try not to start any arguments, but I am very likely to join one in progress if only to share my point of view.

14

Suppression of debate might lead to more misunderstanding than at present. Open discussion is good. Shut up and listen to me.

15

We don’t even have to go as far as the OP.

Live your life in whatever way your faith or lack thereof tells you to. Let everyone else live their lives the way their faith or lack thereof tells them to.

if someone wants to give up sex and dancing because they think god told them to, fine. If someone isn’t very convinced by your tale of eternal damnation, leave 'em be.

Let your proseltyzing be push instead of pull. We all know where the churches are - you don’t have to come Saturday morning and tell us. We all know where the doors of the churches are. But if someone wants to use them, you don’t have to treat them like a leper. Shunning should be right out.

We know where the relgious section of the bookstore is. Publishing a book about god is not shoving religion down our throats. Similarly, publishing a book about atheism is not shoving atheism down our throats. No one will die from exposure to opposing points of view.

And science is neither a religion or a lack of religion. Science is just science, so everyone keep their grubby hands off it.

16

[QUOTE=Heckxx]
Atheists:

Theres no need to try to convince others that their religion/God is false, unless it will benefit them. Religion, regardless of whether God is there, benefits people ethically and emotionally.
Theists:

Theres no need to try to convince non-believers into your religion, unless it will benefit them. Trying too hard to forcibly convince people can have an opposite and detrimental effect.
[/QUOTE]

In both cases, let people decide what will benefit them. They know better than you do. Otherwise, you’re like the Boy Scout helping the little old lady across the street - the little old lady who has no desire to cross the street.

17

a/theists: don’t bomb the other side. Talk all you want, stop after you finished saying what you had to say. Don’t try to impose your values on others.

18

[QUOTE=newcrasher]
And stop painting all theists as ignorant homophobe hicks. Sure some are, but bigotry and prickishness does nto discriminate for religiosity.
[/quote]
Many of them are, and yes it does.

[QUOTE=newcrasher]
THEISTS:

Stop trying to beat people over the head with your views.
[/quote]
But that’s a basic part of many religions; they will never stop.

[QUOTE=newcrasher]
Can we agree on this?
[/QUOTE]
Nope.

[QUOTE=Heckxx]
Atheists:

Theres no need to try to convince others that their religion/God is false, unless it will benefit them. Religion, regardless of whether God is there, benefits people ethically and emotionally.
[/quote]
You think it does; I don’t. I think religion corrupts people morally, and warps people emotionally.

I’ll stop ranting about religion when it leaves me the hell alone and stops inflicting such massive evil on the world. If people were to stay at home and clutch their godmadness to themselves like a teddy bear I’d still hold them in contempt, but I wouldn’t bother to complain so much about religion; but that’s not what they do.

[QUOTE=Voyager]
And science is neither a religion or a lack of religion. Science is just science, so everyone keep their grubby hands off it.
[/QUOTE]
No, science by it’s nature is corrosive to religion, just as religion by it’s nature tries to corrupt science.

And finally, I question whether or not “religious harmony” is desirable.

19

As usual, the theists are wrong. But I don’t know who are all these athists they are so afraid of. When have you heard of an atheist rally or even a tent meeting?
The religious bring them up as straw men to try to rally the troops and dig out more donations.

20

[QUOTE=newcrasher]
ATHEISTS:

I know you have a lot of reasons not to believe. But stop trying to convince people of faith that they are wrong. And stop painting all theists as ignorant homophobe hicks. Sure some are, but bigotry and prickishness does nto discriminate for religiosity.

THEISTS:

Stop trying to beat people over the head with your views. If your God is so great, you certainly cannot fathom His “will” for yourself, let alone others.

Try this…live your life in such a way that those outside of your specific religiosity will WANT to be a part of it. You may believe you have a “Great Commission” to spread the word, but here is a something you may want to notice; people know about your “religion”. Most of those who have chosen to take a pass on it do so because they think checking your intellect at the door and becoming an “Asshat - Admiral Class” is a requirement. So fucking cut it out!

[/QUOTE]

Newcrasher, in another post you are accusing me of farting in the wind? This from the author of the above pile of platitudes?

In your opinion, would theists “beating people over the head with (their) views” include the message “In God we Trust” printed on millions of dollars and other documents in a country that is supposed to separate church and state?

And don’t try to respond to my question with the old line that taking it off would be giving unfair advantage to atheists. It would be giving unfair advantage to atheists if the money carried the slogan “God does not exist” instead of “In God we trust.”

All we have ever asked is that the state remain silent on religious issues, and leave everyone free to believe as they wish.

The minute we turn our backs on theists they are trying to break down the separation of church and state. Like the “hang ten” movement to hang the ten commandments in court houses and schools.

By the way, how many people here have been bothered by Hare Krishnas, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses or other theists? Now, how often has an atheist come to your door to bother you?

Try telling a bunch of atheists that they should hijack three jets, and fly them into public buildings and that they will be rewrarded for this massacre of innocents by a magical father figure who will entertain them in heaven with 72 virgins. See how far you get.

I think I know why I am an atheist. I do not mean to be immodest, but I recently took an IQ test and scored below genius but well above average. And just today, I found the following in Wikipedia at this article:

“According to a study by Paul Bell, published in the Mensa Magazine in 2002, there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and intelligence. Analyzing 43 studies carried out since 1927, Bell finds that all but four reported such a connection, and concludes that “the higher one’s intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold ‘beliefs’ of any kind.” A survey published in Nature confirms that belief in a personal god or afterlife is at an all time low among the members of the National Academy of Science, only 7.0% of which believed in a personal god as compared to more than 85% of the US general population.”

Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you what you are, Newcrasher! :smiley: