A Couple Quick Religion Questions

Factual Questions
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IMPORTANT NOTE: My intent here is to ask a few questions that have been buzzing around in the back of my mind, for which I have not been able to find answers. I do not not not want to bash anyone’s religion. If you want to get into a religious argument, could you please find another thread? Thank you. And now, the questions:

  1. I know that Mormons are expected to store food for their families that will last a certain period of time. I’m under the impression that this is in preparation for a potential disaster. Can anyone share any further details about what the food is for?

  2. I also know that some Jews do not cut a little boy’s hair until he is three years old. Is this a tradition or a law? And what’s the reason?

Thanks for any insight!

Your friendly neighborhood atheist,

  • flodnak
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<< I also know that some Jews do not cut a little boy’s hair until he is three years old. Is this a tradition or a law? And what’s the reason? >>

This is a tradition among Jews from some countries, it is not a law. “You may ask, how did this tradition get started. I’ll tell you: I don’t know. But it’s a tradition.”

Actually, it probably has something to do with avoiding evil spirits getting a lock of the hair upon which to do nasty magic. Why that would go away at age 3, I dunno.

Related but different, is that right-wing Orthodox Jews often do not shave. Again, not a direct law, but a custom. In this case, the law is not to cut yourself, and shaving runs the risk of cutting yourself; therefore Hasidic Jews usually have beards. A hair cut with scissors, OTOH, runs no risk of cutting yourself.

Modern Orthodox use electric razors to side-step the problem. Conservative Jews say that accidentally cutting yourself is irrelevant, and Reform Jews don’t care and show off their tatoo of Porky Pig.

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**

Not quite, CK.

The fruit of a fruit tree is not allowed to be used for three years. There is also a verse in Dueteronomy comparing a man to a tree. As such, the custom has arisen not to cut a young boy’s hair (likened to the fruit of a tree) for three years.

It should be noted that this is strictly a custom and not a formal law in any sense.
**

I’m afraid you’re wrong here too, CK. (In fact it’s interesting that you juxtaposed shaving with tattoos, since the verses prohibiting the two are directly next to each other in Leviticus). Shaving with a razor is an actual prohibition in Leviticus, not merely a custom.

Zev Steinhardt

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The Jewish custom looks like the opposite of Hindu and Islamic tradition, where they shave the infant’s head. For Hindus, it’s part of an important ritual to bless the child and formally bestow the name. In Islam, you’re supposed to weigh the hair and give that weight of silver in charity (must be a teeny tiny amount, though — well, it’s the thought that counts).

In fact, while Muslim men are not supposed to shave their beards, Muslim men and women alike remove their armpit hair and pubic hair. They’ve been doing this since long before shaved pubes became a fashion fad in the West.

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It’s been a while since I was a practicing Mormon (I no longer subscribe to that school of thought), but when I was in, they (the Mormon populous) didn’t know why they were storing food (which should be a year’s worth for their family, BTW), other than they had been told to do so by one of their prophets. One thought was that it was for a disaster, to be named later (possibly during the hard times that are scheduled for just before the second coming). Another was that it was for feeding the renited lost tribes of Israel, either just before or just after the second coming of Christ (I don’t remember which). Part of the problem with answering this question is that a lot of the Mormon belief system is not written down and is hard to track.

bauble

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IANAM (Morman), but I had a good friend who was when I was growing up. They had tons of food stored in their garage for “an emergency”… which, since we live in earthquake country, made sense to me at the time.

I was later told by a non-Morman that this food was to last them through the “End Times”…

Sorry I don’t have more authoritative information…

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The All About Mormons web site’s page on Emergency Preparedness says in part:

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As a 4-year convert to the LDS church, I still think it is a little odd (and a bit disturbing) to see piles of foodstuff in a basement room. My exwife’s grandmother had a huge larder full of canned textured vegetable protein, baked beans and about 2 tons of wheat. I felt as if I was in a fallout shelter.

I think it is always reasonable and prudent to have some food available in case of a natural disaster (especially here in earthquake country) - but a year?? that’s just not right.

Phouchg

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BTW, the “All About Mormons” page you cited is NOT an official page of the church - the gentleman who runs it is extremely orthodox (or “Iron Rod” as we LDS Mormons call then) bordering on Fascistic. Read some of his neanderthal-like opinions on sexuality, blind obedience, and science.

Phouchg

(not that I am biased or anything…)

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You can use the official web site of the LDS church to learn more about how and why we store food. Go to http://www.lds.org click on search and type in the words “food storage”. The search will have places to search either scripture or gospel literary archive. I suggest you search the gospel literary archive. Within the archive you can further specify what type of literary search, curriculum, 2001 magazines, or 1971-2000 magazines.

While I am a practicing member and I do have some food, water and basic necessities stored (more on that below) I am not a spokesperson for the church. I have however encountered this question several times among curious friends. Since the SDMB is largely a community of friends, I would like to point out five things that commonly come up when food storage is asked about in social situations.

First, the storing of food is not advocated in countries or areas where it is against local laws. Members are encouraged to know and abide by the local laws when practicing this tenant of our faith. Living in accordance with the laws of the land is an important article of our faith.

Second, as in most faiths, (dare I say all?) members practice with varying degrees of steadfastness. This includes the practice of storing food.

For the third point, I’d like to use an allegory. If, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints is a book, then the practice of storing food is a paragraph in the appendix on the page about emergency preparedness within the chapter on self-sufficiency. It is a practice, not doctrine. As an example, a family in our congregation that did adhere to the practice of storing food, the father was out of work in his field for over a year. The family used their food storage, their garden, and their savings, (having a garden and ample savings are two another component of self sufficiency), in addition to occasional aid from the church and never needed to apply for government aid.

Fourth, food storage is not just food, it includes water, basic toiletries, first aid supplies, blankets, and in some cases clothing.

Fifth and my final point (I think :slight_smile: ) is that the principle is meant for the benefit of not just members, but their families, neighbors and friends. In my experience, the food, clothes and basic toiletries that have been stored for emergency are often as not, used by people other than the family who “stored” them. While the flooding in Houston and surrounding areas did not directly affect my family, my “food storage” and that of my friends who also store, did benefit the community. When the two Red Cross shelters that opened in our area started calling for toothbrushes, band-aids, cots, blankets and bottled water. I had some of those things on hand to share with our unfortunate neighbors who were displaced by the flood. If I did not practice “food storage” I might not have been able to aid in this crisis as it comes at a time when cash flow would have prevented me donating money to the Red Cross.

Abby

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Where is it against the law to store food, and what are people supposed to do instead, just eat every meal at restaurants?

Incidentally, this practice is by no means unique to Latter-Day Saints. My mom keeps a year’s worth of food or so in the basement, and even in my little student apartment, I have close to a month’s worth. We both have gardens, too. We’re Catholic. We just see it as good sense: If nothing else, we save money by stocking up when things go on sale, and it means less trips to the grocery store. What’s so peculiar about that?

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Chronos, since I participate and in no way find the practice peculiar, I will let flodnak address that part of your post. I’m delighted to hear that you and your family practice food storage also. Ironically, the last time I answered questions regarding our food storage program it was in a discussion with a catholic friend I met a couple of years ago through our sons participation on the same swim team. On to your question, I went to the LDS website, Googles, and Jeeves and did not find the names of countries yet. I’ll look for specifics again tomorrow if after this post you would like me to keep looking. The best I can do for cites this morning is from the LDS website, doing a search using the words “food storage” and “illegal” I came up with almost 300 hits. I tried to link to the two articles, but it just takes you to the search engine. As you can see from my post count I’m quite new and just getting the hang of things here. I’ve cut and pasted some pertinate excerpts that document why I commented the practice is not advocated in countries where it violates local laws. Both articles cited below (which can be found using the LDS website search engine) speak well as to why and how the practice of emergency preparedness and food storage is beneficial. I’ve clipped them heavily for posting here though. Once again this turned out to be a much longer response than I intended, for which I apologize. I added the bolding in the excerpts below.

From: “If Ye Are Prepared … ,” Liahona, June 2000, 25
The Lord counsels us to prepare for the future, both temporally and spiritually… We are expected to rely first on our own resources. “We teach self-reliance as a principle of life,” President Gordon B. Hinckley has observed. “We encourage our people to have something, to plan ahead, … if possible, against a rainy day. Catastrophes come to people sometimes when least expected—unemployment, sickness, things of that kind. The individual … ought to do for himself all that he can” (“ ‘This Thing Was Not Done in a Corner,’ ” Ensign, November 1996, 50).

We have been counseled to store sufficient food, money, and clothing to meet essential needs. A good goal is to have a year’s supply of these necessities. In some countries, storing food is illegal, and some members do not have the money or space for a year’s supply. In such cases, we do what we can. We prepare by learning to produce basic food items and to make or An education also opens doors to employment opportunities.

From: 1971-2000 Magazines/Ensign/1977/Ensign August 1977/The Most Frequently Asked Questions about Home Production and Storage

How does home production and storage fit into the Church’s personal and family preparedness program?
Like all other major programs of the Church, preparedness is centered in the individual and the family. Its central concept is one of provident living, not just reaction to emergencies. Home production is one of six important elements of the personal and family preparedness program:

  1. Literacy and Education. The prepared person reads, writes, and does basic mathematics; regularly studies…
  2. Career Development. … Each young person should receive counsel to help him select a career that will satisfy family economic needs and provide personal satisfaction.
  3. Financial and Resource Management. The prepared person should establish financial goals, pay tithes and offerings, avoid debt, wisely use and preserve economic resources, and save during times of production for times of nonproduction.
  4. Home Production and Storage. Each person or family should produce as much as possible through gardening, and as much as appropriate through sewing and making household items. Each person and family should learn techniques of home canning, freezing, and drying foods, and where legally permitted should store and save a one-year supply of food, clothing, and, if possible, fuel.
  5. Physical Health.
  6. Social-Emotional and Spiritual Strength.

If fathers and mothers will actively plan and prepare their families in all these areas, great strength in the proper balance can result—for the Church as well as the family. Families will not only be prepared for emergencies, but their ability to husband resources, to exercise wise stewardship, to prevent problems, and to make the best of everyday living will also be enhanced. Personal and family preparedness is the key to self-reliance and family integrity in the Church’s total welfare program.

What can members of the Church do in countries where food storage is unlawful?
Only a few countries still have regulations that prohibit citizens from storing food. Most such regulations that are still on the books are the result of conditions that no longer exist. Many, for example, are carry-overs from the war years, when food was very scarce and hoarding was a real problem. In such instances, members of the Church and other citizens might do whatever is lawful and prudent and appropriate to change these laws. Where this is not possible, there are other alternatives.
For example, home production can be emphasized where home storage is not possible. Families can become proficient in producing appropriate nonfood necessities. They can learn the principles of thrift and industry. They can grow gardens. A great deal of food can be kept in reserve right in the ground.
Another option is “live storage.” In many circumstances where it is unlawful to store food on shelves it is perfectly legal to store it “on the hoof” in the form of cows, chickens, goats, sheep, pigs, etc., or in a constantly used garden; and thus it is possible to maintain a considerable supply of some basic foods.
Also, in many instances where it is against the law to store food in large quantities, it is still legal to have several weeks’ supply on hand.

Hope this helps,
Abby

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flodnak:

It’s a tradition, and one I feel particularly qualified to comment on since I just made my 3-year-old’s Upsherin (Yiddish for “haircut”) two weeks ago.

As Zev said, the reason stems from the rule that one can’t eat the fruits of a tree for the first three years after planting it. In addition to the simple meaning of that verse, the Talmud reads into this a hidden meaning that until a child is three years old, he is not truly capable of being trained in following G-d’s commandments (i.e., “producing fruit” in the spiritual sense). Since the commandment of not cutting the hair off certain parts of the head is placed very soon after the verse referenced above, it is considered appropriate that this be the first commandment into which a young boy is initiated once he has reached age 3 (the prohibition does not apply to girls, as the verse mentions the beard as part of the prohibition). Hence, his hair is kept uncut so that his first encounter with this commandment be at age 3.

It is to be stressed that this is merely a tradition, and not a prohibition. I, myself, had my hair cut before I was 3 because I had a heat rash on the back of my neck the summer I was one year old.

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Can someone, preferably a Moslem, expand on the body hair removal statement? Women AND men? I don’t believe that is in the Koran, is it?

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here is a link to a catholic site about food storage.
http://www.justpeace.org/foodsec.htm

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JCHeckler: getting rid of armpit hair and pubic hair for both men and women is not in the Qur’ân. It’s mentioned in the Hadith:

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Jomo Mojo: Is this Hadith statement then taken as a directive or a recommendation? In other words, is it something that every Moslem does, or some, or only the most observant ones?

Please forgive my ignorance. I know this must sound totally dumb, but there are probably readers in the non-Christian parts of the world who think that some of the more esoteric or uncommon Christian practices (like snake-handling, or end-time prophecies) are more widespread than they really are.

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Wow. Thanks, everyone. Lots of fascinating information, I really hadn’t expected so much!

Let me explain why I asked about the food storage… I had been told by someone who is, shall we say, not fond of Mormons, that Mormons were supposed to do this because their church taught that when the last days came, Jesus was going to destroy all the food, so everyone else would starve to death but Mormons would be okay because they had stored food :rolleyes: Obviously that’s wrong, not only bigoted but stupid, but it got me wondering why this practice was so strongly encouraged. labdude, I read the page you’d linked to, but wanted to mention that I grew up Catholic and never heard any of the things recommended on the page as anything, well, Catholic, y’know?

And I was thinking about the haircutting question because I recently saw a family website featuring pictures of the youngest son taken before and after his first haircut. He looked absolutely adorable with all his curls :slight_smile: (But I don’t want to think about how his parents managed to wash and comb that hair while he was busy trying to be a two-year-old!)

Thanks again, I’ve learned so much more than I ever expected!

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JCHeckler (hmm, you’re not heckling, you’re asking serious thoughtful questions), that hadith is considered a pretty authoritative instruction to all Muslims. It’s not an absolute commandment, but everybody’s expected to do it. They won’t go to Hell for ignoring it, but it’s the sort of thing you practice as part of the compleat Islamic life. I’ve never heard of a poll or a survey to find out how many Muslims actually get rid of their armpit hair & pubic hair, but it’s considered as normal a part of good grooming as trimming one’s nails. So I would guess that most Muslims observe it. The only time I saw a mention of it in literature was in Khushwant Singh’s novel Delhi (great novel, by the way). In the Indian Uprising of 1857, the British captured the prince of the Mughals and stripped him naked, and he put his hands over his genitals and everybody saw he’d shaved his pubic hair, which was considered normal for Muslims.