The closest I could find was about a cessna pilot that just landed in Berlin, Pensylvania that jumped back in his plane as soon as news from the passenger plane crashed, Other reports point at a business jet that was asked to descend to an altitude of around 1,500 ft to survey the impact. The issue here is that there is no evidence of a military plane in the area, but most likely people that confused other planes as military. The point here is that better evidence than just confused testimony is needed.
[QUOTE=Stink Fish Pot]
As to the specifics of 9/11 truthers, I honestly can’t speak to the particulars. I have heard a number of theories, but I haven’t seen anything that has convinced me that the day didn’t play out pretty much as has been reported. The only part that I have been interested in is the plane crash in PA and the eyewitness accounts of the white cessna-type plane that was seen by a number of people. I even posted a link to a site discussing this one point out here once, with no real dog in the fight other than I personally believe that plane was either shot down or it was being closely followed and was going to be shot down when the passengers fought the hijackers and drove the plane into the countryside.
[/QUOTE]
This is one of the things that actually has a kernel of truth behind it, but has been blown all out of proportion by the CT Truther crowd. You say you don’t want to debate the various points, so I’ll just say that it’s dealt with in Popular Sciences debunking article, as well as both of the NatGeo specials on 9/11 science verse CT shows. If you are actually interested, you can easily look up the fairly mundane facts on this.
Sure, I can imagine several things. For instance, evidence of det cord or wire structures used in actual demolition would be pretty compelling. Zero has been found, but there would be a huge amount of this sort of stuff to bring down a building that large (short of magical explosives that leave zero evidence of course). Someone who would actually know something coming forward, or real evidence coming to light from a credible source that some aspect of the CT actually happened would be taken seriously. There would have had to have been literally thousands involved in this, and it stretches credulity that none have come forward. Consider the various government scandals that have come to light since 9/11 to get some perspective on how ridiculous that is.
In short, actual evidence would be taken seriously. But when you start to dig into this thing you quickly see (if you have anything like an open mind, which most 9/11 Truther CT types don’t) that there is nothing. The ‘official story’ pretty much holds together, at least wrt what brought down the buildings, what hit the Pentagon and what brought down flight 93. If there is a conspiracy, IMHO, it would deal with people covering their asses for failure to put the pieces together, or perhaps having key pieces and ignoring them. It’s not going to be fairy stealth ninjas using magical explosives and holographic air craft, nor cruise missiles hitting the Pentagon, or mysterious military jets shooting down flight 93.
Trouble with this What If™ is that there aren’t any credible engineers who actually have both the experience with buildings like this and first hand knowledge that I’ve ever seen weigh in this way. If there was, and if s/he actually presented a credible argument then…well, not sure if I’d buy it, but it would at least be something different that could be argued about and discussed. I think you underestimate this board if you think that actual evidence would be tossed out without thought. What you mainly see, though, is people bringing up the same old tired horseshit that’s been addressed over and over again, so it’s become more of a board running joke.
It’s a science based board here, skeptical and with a pretty wide range of skills and education/knowledge. Look at the fights in GD. It’s ridiculous to think that people with as different of backgrounds and political, ethical, moral and philosophical outlook would be in lockstep on this subject if there was actually some sort of counter evidence. So, who decides what is valid? The preponderance of evidence looked at through the lens of skepticism and science pretty much has determined this over time and over many, many discussions.
I say we send them over by Randi. There’s a whole forum in which they can get their asses handed to them. But they have to up their game. The current OP in GD is a pathetic amateur.
One of the principle objections to CTs is that they over-estimate the competence of the perps and the ability to keep secrets in an open society. According to the wiki article there was one US senator who doubted the Gulf of Tonkin story immediately. It was known to be dubious during the 1970s. I’m not really sure it qualifies as a classic CT.
I have seen threads where posters pain-painstakingly sort through existing evidence. I don’t accept your counter-factual.
Assuming such a study was published in a legitimate architectural or engineering journal (rather than a pay-to-publish vanity journal or some crackpot 9/11 journal), I don’t think you’d see that at all. I think you’d see a legitimate look at it from the more science-minded members of the community, and at least temporary credulity from most of us. Of course, the fact that no such study actually exists should be telling everyone something.
(That the peer-review system is corrupt and in on the conspiracy!!!)
(No, seriously. I emailed AE911Truth asking why I couldn’t find any such paper and that was pretty much the answer they gave me.)
But what if I reeeeeeeeeeally want to post about something and have people read the words I’ve written? That’s a debate, right?
Also, on a side note, I really don’t see the issue. When I see a thread like that it’s always good fun. Sure, it’s not the most productive thing ever, but it’s always funny to watch the beatdown.
&
The WONJCTs don’t pay attention to these. To the contrary, the loons treat the mere utterance as fodder for their masturbatory fantasies that the WONJCTs are more knowledgeable than actual people with functioning brains.
It’s fitting. They overestimate their own competence, too.
And they usually think that all experts are involved in the conspiracy, it does not matter if it is about Evolution, Climate Change, Vaccines or other items were the scientific community agrees on an issue.
The Subcommittee based their conclusions on a police Dictabelt recording that apparently recorded the sounds of four gunshots. Unfortunately, since the Dictabelt was found just before the Subcommittee was going to wrap up their work, they didn’t make a very in depth investigation of it. If they had, they might have noticed that the four alleged gunshots occur after a dispatcher announcing that the motorcade is heading for Parkland – the hospital where they took Kennedy after he was shot. So, you’ve got the choices of (1) the conspirators were so determined to take Kennedy out they kept up a barrage of gunfire after he was no longer on the scene; (b) the Dictabelt recorded something other than gunshots.
Now it is truther tag-team time.
You are demonstrating a profound lack of understanding of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. It wasn’t a CT, there was an actual attack on Aug 2nd, and there was no actual attack on Aug 4th. On Aug 4th the second ‘attack’ was fought between the Maddox and radar ghosts. If you read the wiki article you’ll note Senator Wayne Morse was alleging faulty records of the incident before LBJ had even finished drafting the resolution. McNamara, who is presumably now deservedly roasting in hell, was 32 years too late in his admission in The Fog of War. It was all printed in black and white on the front pages of the New York Times in 1971 and printed in book form as The Pentagon Papers.
That was my exact reaction. We hired them to spy. Why are we surprised that they did what we hired them to do? Spies gonna spy.
Oh, dear God, psikeyhackr is back in that thread with his delusions of competence and his conviction that an accurate physical model can completely model the behavior of the towers, if only we knew the mass of each floor to the gram. :smack:
This thread needs more orbs. 
I just wanted to say I love that acronym. I remember when you did that thread a couple of years ago. 
And for everyone that wonders it stands for:
Whacked Out Nut Job Conspiracy Theorist.
That’s what THEY want you to think it stands for. I heard from my cousin’s manicurist’s drycleaner’s doorman’s kid brother (whose newspaper boy’s sister’s boyfriend’s mom cleans the offices at an accounting firm in a building owned by a family friend of the bin Laden family) that it actually stands for World Organization of Nullifying Juries on Councils for Truth.
AKA: Piece of Shit.
Seriously. I really cannot tolerate those morons in so-called polite society. Yes, everyone’s entitled to an opinion. The thing is, though, that asinine and unfounded opinions are not sacrosanct. They’re simply stupid. And when it comes to so many of these CTs, those opinions are touted as “The Real Truth” but in reality, they are just vicious excuses to be cruel to those who’ve lost someone. Penn & Teller had it right.