A difficult question about race and sterotypes

Great Debates
1

Let me first say if I offend anyone by oversimplifying, patronizing or using racial stereotypes I apologize.
Let’s say you work in a Deli/Bodega on the border of two different neighborhoods, one middle class one low income. African American kids come in from the poor neighborhood nearby. Most of them are normal customers and do not shoplift or cause trouble. Some do however. Of the people who shoplift or cause trouble you have a variety of groups represented but the largest group is African American. We are not saying all people who are African American that come into your store shoplift or cause trouble, just that there is a certain amount that does and it seems to be more than others.

You own the store and stay behind the counter. But you have given instructions to the stock boy that any time a “suspicious” looking African American youth comes in the store to watch them closely to make sure they don’t shoplift. This may seem “logical” to some people but the problem is, when African American youths come to your store who “look suspicious” but are completely normal they feel like they have been treated like a criminal when they were doing nothing at all wrong. (African American friends I have have told me they find this very insulting).

I’ve been told by my African American friends that the problem is not so much being treated that way in one store “once a year” (my terminology), the problem is when it becomes commonplace to be suspected as a criminal it is very annoying and, I would imagine, detrimental to the self image of a young person growing up in such circumstances. But, I can also understand the concern of a store owner if they live near a low income ethnic neighborhood.

A few statistics on crime and race, couldn’t find specific data on shoplifting:
The “National Youth Gang Survey Analysis” (2011) state that of gang members, 46% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are African-American/black, 11.5% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.[35]

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in the year 2008 black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws and drunkenness.[36]

cite for claim [35]:

cite for claim [36]:
Unnever, James (2011). A Theory of African American Offending: Race, Racism, and Crime. Routledge. p. 2

I can find no reviews of this book so the claim(s) may very well be questionable

2

What’s the question?

3

Is it fair for the owner of the store to tell the stock boy to look out for “suspicious looking” minorities?

4

No. It’s explicitly discriminatory – treating some folks differently because they’re black (and young and male).

5

A sign on the door reading “Whites Only” is your next step.

6

This is not just a social problem, but one deeply seated in human psychology and folk logic.

Take London gun crime as an example. The facts are

1/ The great majority of handgun gang crime is committed by young Afro-Caribbeans.
2/ The great majority of young Afro-Caribbeans never get involved in any form of crime.

The human brain is designed to make quick, rather than accurate assessments of threatening situations as over vigilance is a safe option.

This is not a racial problem but a psychological one- concerned with cognitive function and the limits of rationality.

Consider the less political example.

Most librarians are introspective quiet people. Sales assistants need to be gregarious.

Martha is introspective and quiet.

Is she more likely to be a librarian or a sales assistant?

Think about it…

7

In my opinion, yes. But your probably best to cover your ass by empahsizing “suspicious looking” rather than the minority. If the store clerk has any sense he or she will know what is meant. You will then have legal cover if the clerk turns out to be a SJW, or when your trial for shooting any suspicious looking gang member/minority/thug comes to trial.

8

When deciding whether or not to discriminate by race, it’s always best to try to find a legal way to do it, in addition to hiring people who are okay with discriminating by race.

9

While you are keeping an eye on one group the other group is robbing you blind. You’ll keep reinforcing your notion of who shoplifts more because you’re only catching the group you’re looking at.

10

My problem is I know what you’ll are saying is correct, morally, ethically and logically, but, I still think that if I were the shop owner I would be suspicious.

11

I don’t have any problem with suspicion – I don’t care about other people’s thoughts – feel free to be suspicious of black people, or young people, or men, or anyone. I have a problem with differing and negative treatment of people based on race, even if it’s as relatively minor as watching more closely certain people around the store. I think that’s wrong (differing treatment, even in a very minor way, based on race), and responsible for a huge part of society’s ills.

12

but how, precisely, do you define suspicious?

13

Apparently, for Fuzzy_wuzzy, by race (plus maybe age and gender).

14

Why not just say “look out for suspicious-looking young people” - the issue of whether they’re mostly Black or not is irrelevant to the matter at hand. The demographics of the OP is such that they will turn out to be mostly Black, but that doesn’t mean that has to be a criterion for profiling. If you profile on all the other stuff, you don’t run the risk of missing the Hispanic/White/Korean shoplifting kids, and you’re not a racist. Win-win.

15

I’ll endorse this approach.

16

This, I think, is the only reasonable answer. I’ve never heard that shoplifting is a crime performed only by black kids in hoodies. Ask your clerks to keep an eye on everyone who comes in the store, but to treat everyone with politeness and respect.

17

Ok, my problem in responding is I don’t want people to think I, Robert, am racist. To whatever degree that I am, I am trying not to be or to be less racist at the very least.

So, two hypothetical examples:

1- You catch 10 people shoplifting in a month. 7 are African American, one is White, one Latino, one Asian.

2- You catch 5 shop lifters in a row in one week. All 5 are African American.

how am I supposed to react if either one of the two occur?

18

this seems like the correct response… except that now, are you treating all young people as criminals?

19

By reporting it to police and filing an insurance claim. Possibly by installing prominent security cameras, and if it’s cheaper than the loss from the thefts, by hiring a security guard for the night shift (or whenever most of the shoplifting takes place).

20

To be honest I have my own opinions on who would be a risk. These would be a mixture of race, age, sex etc. But to be perfectly honest the store owner would be the best person to judge this The store owner knows the area, the clientele, the rough history of previous shoplifting incidents. He or she will know far more than anyone who the “types” to shoplift are in the store. He’ll certainly know better than most folk on an internet forum. Does this give the owner a free pass to act in any way he/she wishes? No, but it allows them to effectively use limited resources when customers enter the store.