Why would God choose to reveal himself to the bible peoples and suddenly not do that anymore? Why would he show up and do miracles and whatnot, and supposedly oversee the writing of the Bible, and then be done with it?
Why would he change the rules? Why should we be expected to accept something on faith alone, while acccepting the documents of others which claim to have had first-hand proof? I want first hand proof too!
And as for the Bible: If this is supposed to be the one true word of God, according to Christians, why are the authors limited to pretty much only the eastern countries? Where’s the books of the bible from where god revealed himself to the North Americans, or the Australians, or the Asians?
Next, if Jesus was the son of god, and that he and his father are one, why on the cross did he cry out “Father why have you forsaken me?” Shouldn’t he have know that his father didn’t forsake him? Is it possible that he merely thought that he was the son of god, and was confused on the cross that god didn’t come to his rescue? Seems a little strange that someone who is supposedly connected to god would have to ask where he is, especially when we are told that both he and god are part of the same entity.
Lastly, we are told that God wants us all to go and be with him in heaven. Why then does he not intervene more in our lives to help boost our faith in him, so that we will be more likely to go there? Sure, he wasnts us to have “free will” to choose on our own, but would a loving and caring god allow most of us to choose wrong, just because of free will? Is God so limited, that he cannot come up with a system whereby we are more likely to choose him, but still maintain our free-will? Why would he be limited by the rules he made himself? Seems to me that if God was all-loving and all-caring, he would change his own rules to maximize the number of people who go to heaven, don’t you think?
I cannot accept that an excuse such as free-will can be allowed to explain why god would allow most of humanity to go to hell.
Anyways, that’s all I have for right now. Give me your thoughts.
Cranky!
Why ask why, drink bud dry! (sorry)
That’s an awful lot of questions, and I won’t even try to answer any of them, but I’ve got another one to add, which I always find fun to think about. In the Bible, Jesus is called “Son of God” and also “Son of Man.” Now (and any scholars out there can help out, 'cause I know that this is translation) I always find it interesting that Jesus can be the “Son of Man.” If Jesus is son of God and Son of man, then either the Civil Union legislation here in Vermont had prescident in the Bible, or God and man are one and the same. Therefore I am god. Beware or I shall strike thee down with my lightning bolt of death and destruction! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Rather than link you to the many discussions on this, I’ll just answer your questions.
There’s an awful lot of stuff in play here, all the more because the questions are so have-you-stopped-beating-your-wife loaded. Maybe we can find answers as we unload them and break out the dependent clauses.
[li] Why would God choose to reveal Himself…[/li]
Because He is Love. Love seeks out others.
[li] …to the bible peoples…[/li]
Well, He didn’t reveal Himself to all in the bible peoples. In fact, just like today, there were an awful lot of bible peoples staring right at Him without recognizing Him.
[li] …and suddenly not do that anymore?[/li]
I’m curious as to why you think He stopped. Because you haven’t heard about His modern revelations on CNN or in your biology class? Because you have heard about them but just don’t believe it anyway? Or what?
The “rules” were made for man, not man for the “rules”. They weren’t changed. They were fulfilled.
I have first-hand proof, as do many others. Seek Love, and you will find your first-hand proof.
Unloading…
[li] If this is supposed to be the one true word of God…[/li]
The Bible is just a book. Jesus is the Word of God.
[li] …according to Christians…[/li]
Would you necessarily take the advice of the man next to you in an airplane who says he’s a doctor?
[li] …why are the authors limited to pretty much only the eastern countries?[/li]
Well, they’re mid-eastern, actually. At any rate, I imagine it’s because that’s where they lived.
Good heavens. Did you just fall off the boat?
The Word of God has been and is being revealed to people all over the world.
Haven’t you read David’s 22nd Psalm?
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent. Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel.
"In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
"But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: ‘He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.’
"Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother’s breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God. Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. Roaring lions tearing their prey open their mouths wide against me.
"I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
"I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
"But you, O LORD, be not far off; O my Strength, come quickly to help me. Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
"I will declare your name to my brothers; in the congregation I will praise you. You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
"For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help. From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.
"The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the LORD will praise him-- may your hearts live forever! All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations.
"All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him-- those who cannot keep themselves alive. Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord.
"They will proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn — for he has done it. "
Shouldn’t you have read the Bible before asking these questions about it? See Psalms 22.
Well, there’s that little thing called the Resurrection. It was a rather spectacular rescue.
Funny thing is, so much about Jesus seems strange to so many people. Check out Jesus the Son of Man by Kahlil Gibran. You’ll find a lot of diverse opinions from people who believe He is God, to people who believe He is the devil.
No. What we are told is that Heaven is within us. Here. Now.
You’re not one of those guys who blames the victim for her rape, are you? If you have free-will, and you give a shit, then why don’t you just love Him? That gives you a 100% chance of “going there”.
He can’t make a square circle either.
Why do you (for the most part) use rules of grammar when you write? Do you suppose it helps us to apprend a bit easier?
No. Quality, my son. Not quantity. The Spirit isn’t made of atoms.
But it’s a good excuse for the men who exercise their free-will?
A little disingenuous, Lib. I think you know what he’s asking. Why no more fiery chariots, falling walls, pillars of salt, smiting, burning bushes, plagues . . . why no more miracles?
That’s certainly one interpretation . . . but it’s not one shared by the majority of Christians, as well you know.
Cool! I’m very proud of you for embracing the IPU, Lib. I knew you’d come around.
Er, that is what you meant, right? That you are accepting Her Divine Crunchiness to cover your bases?
Oh, and if you’re going to change all the Divine Nouns and Pronouns so they are Capitalized, make sure you get them all. Otherwise it looks silly.
well i’m MUSLIM and i guess i know a bit about christianity since we also believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible etc. Maybe you’d like to hear our point of view on the whole matter since its pretty funny that we Muslims pretty much have the answer to many christian questions…tho i’m pretty sure this is not what the church would want you to believe…well whateva…i’ll juss go on with your answers from the Islamic perspective.
I apologize in advance if any of the stuff I am about to mention clashes with anyones christian beliefs or offends anyone since these are the views from another religion and not Christian views
Why would God choose to reveal himself to the bible peoples and suddenly not do that anymore? Why would he show up and do miracles and whatnot, and supposedly oversee the writing of the Bible, and then be done with it?
Well he didn’t choose to reveal himself at all. He never has revealed himself except maybe from a story of moses…where a mountain got burned when he did (i’ve kinda forgotten that story but it has to be in the bible too).
Ok this is how it works. Adam was the first prophet. Then came a lot of others including Abraham, moses etc. In total there were 124,000 prophets according to Islamic teachings.
So well it wuz like prophets came down pretty often but the thing wuz that some of them had larger tasks than others.
Jesus Christ was not the son of God. In fact the Quran mentions this pretty explicitly at various places. He was however a very important prophet. This kinda makes it easier to explain things duzn’t it. i.e God is God and Jesus is well…a prophet like countless others…tho of course we mortals tend to idolize ppl very easily and hence we call him a god and then create the whole concept of trinity etc.
I guess thats the only real flaw that muslims see with christianity…and the real justification for the fact that god sent down islam…i.e the corruption in the teachings of christianity which is otherwise a pretty perfect religion…and you know…you’ll have to admit…some of the things really don’t make no sense…eh?
So for us muslims its like just one big religion and one god…just many prophets preaching the whole thing in steps and well islam just happened to be the last edition of the same book. So if you go to a shop and want to buy the same title…which edition do you go for? Well I went for the last…and you…just got the second last edition…but its all the same religion and has been going on from the start i.e from Adam and of course will go on till the END.
Why would he change the rules? Why should we be expected to accept something on faith alone, while acccepting the documents of others which claim to have had first-hand proof? I want first hand proof too!
well everyone wants proof…i guess thats the really tricky part…no one will present you with proof. If god were in front of us all the time we’d all be good…but its like you have to follow your own nature…its like not stealing from a shop when the owner is not looking…thats the real test of morals.
If you want proof…you should really study more religions…i’ve done that…and think for yourself and make your decision…its ok if you want to be agnostic etc…its all upto you…The proof is out there…but just don’t limit yerself to so and so version of the bible to decide…you’ll have to do a lot more research…and study other religions while yer at it…you’ll find yer answers.
Unfortunately no one can give you proof apart from the almighty…and the Quran really does give a lot on this matter i.e why you should believe in GOD. So does the bible i guess. So like study this stuff…its not blind faith you know!
Actually i think blind faith is pretty stupid…my religion tells me to think…argue and ponder about this stuff and THEN make your decision. Islam really does encourage us to question things…and then decide for ourselves. Its written in numerous places in the Quran.
And as for the Bible: If this is supposed to be the one true word of God, according to Christians, why are the authors limited to pretty much only the eastern countries? Where’s the books of the bible from where god revealed himself to the North Americans, or the Australians, or the Asians?
Actually there are quite a few true words of GOD. Like the Torah, The bible and the Quran and some much smaller texts for some older prophets.
Believe it or not but these are ALL the true words of God. The only problem arises in the fact that the Quran still is today as it wuz 1400 yearz ago. The bible however has been changed and messed around with alot…so like you’ll never find two copies of the Quran that are different from each other but you’ll find a lot of versions of the bible which is pretty dissappointing 'cos it means that there are so many versions of what God said…hence the BIG CONFUSION amongst christians. Next, if Jesus was the son of god, and that he and his father are one, why on the cross did he cry out “Father why have you forsaken me?” Shouldn’t he have know that his father didn’t forsake him? Is it possible that he merely thought that he was the son of god, and was confused on the cross that god didn’t come to his rescue? Seems a little strange that someone who is supposedly connected to god would have to ask where he is, especially when we are told that both he and god are part of the same entity
well i seriously think that Jesus never said this and it wuz one of the things added later to “add spice” to the bible. i.e when Jesus said “eli eli lama?” i.e “oh father, why hast thou forsaken me?” it kinda negates pretty much everything…and the fact that this line is narrative i.e third person…meaning…A THIRD PERSON WROTE ABOUT JESUS…so obviously…it wuzn’t Jesus saying this or telling someone to add this to the bible etc…ok the bible wuz collected 70 yearz later but still…it is the word of GOD revealed unto Jesus Christ…not onto some other person…so you know…if you think about it…i’ll bet you 10 bucks that Jesus neva even said this. Its pretty logical! Lastly, we are told that God wants us all to go and be with him in heaven. Why then does he not intervene more in our lives to help boost our faith in him, so that we will be more likely to go there? Sure, he wasnts us to have “free will” to choose on our own, but would a loving and caring god allow most of us to choose wrong, just because of free will? Is God so limited, that he cannot come up with a system whereby we are more likely to choose him, but still maintain our free-will? Why would he be limited by the rules he made himself? Seems to me that if God was all-loving and all-caring, he would change his own rules to maximize the number of people who go to heaven, don’t you think?
I cannot accept that an excuse such as free-will can be allowed to explain why god would allow most of humanity to go to hell.
Ok why duz the educational system suck so much…why can’t everyone just get straight A’s…can’t they develop a system that gives everyone A’s??? Man what a stupid educational system! You see you’re thinking exactly like that…the educational system is not stupid! Its fair. You’re wishing for A’s for everyone when a lot of ppl don’t deserve it.
Ok a guy iz in this world…and hez basically a nice guy…everyone wants to go to heaven? Ok so lets say he goes there…next to him is sitting Mr.Hitler who was not such a nice person but he got in 'cos they decided to let everyone into heaven!!!
By the way Who said most of humanity is going to hell…OF COURSE THOSE FUNDAMENTALISTS WILL KEEP TELLING YOU…that if you’re not from so and so religion and do not belong to so and so sect etc. and you don’t give so much charity to the church etc. you will go to hell…or maybe if you’re banging the neighborz wife…you’ll go to hell…truth is…YOU’RE NOT GOD AND NEITHER ARE THEY. There must be some population planning in both places…remember…that guy created the universe…so obviously he must have some planz for attendances in hell or heaven.
Ok! If I made any remarks to offend the followers of any religion…plz forgive me!
For those who follow a religion, offense is so easily taken. For those who follow God, your words are not offensive despite whether we might disagree with this or that.
Andros
Hmmm. Let me try a different approach…
Why is no one offering a reward for proof of psychic abilities? Oh, someone is? Well, I’ve never seen it on TV. Oh, you can give me a link? [visiting link…] Well, I saw the page you linked me to, but anybody can put up a web page. I’m afraid that doesn’t prove anything. So, why is no one offering a reward for proof of psychic abilities?
[get it?]
And to whom should we turn for authority on the matter, the majority of Christians or Christ Himself?
Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” — Jesus, Luke 17:20-21
Not to cover my bases, certainly! But if she speaks to me and tells me she loves me, then yes indeed I will love her.
The Bible appears to be chock-full of miracles. Big, fluffy, dramatic, well-witnessed miracles. Flood, fire, and frogs. Loud, rockin’, Rolling Stones concert stuff.
Where are those now? Or do you say that God is still taking the kind of heavy hand he took in the OT?
(Again, I’m only attempting to clarify what I think the OP was asking. Pending further input from him, I’m happy to continue.)
Of course, many would say there’s a difference between the Kingdom of God and Heaven.
:shrug: But what the Christ said, and how that is interpreted, and what other verses might complicate that, are not really the issue, I think. Perhaps all Christians should believe as you do . . . but they don’t. Most people find enough support in their Bibles to believe in an afterlife, a Heaven distinct from this existence, wherein live all the righteous after their deaths, lo unto the end of time. Selah.
So, then, if so many people believe that Heaven is a real place, and that God wants us all to go there, but we cannot unless we’re Christian, well . . . how do those people reconcile their beliefs?
(And the answer is, mostly they don’t.)
Hey, if you can’t hear the IPU calling, it’s only because you’re not listening.
Just so you know, my background was one of Christian upbringing. I had been going to church since childhood, never once questioning what I had been told.
Recently, I have learned several facts, which got me thinking about other things:
1: The Creation event as described in Genesis has been shown to be false.
2: The great flood of Noah can not have possibly happened during earth’s history, and
3: The adam and eve scenario can not have given rise to humanity as we know it today.
All of these facts are based on solid evidences.
So now you know where I come from. I have studied a lot, and tried to reconcile my faith with science, but I no longer can. The more I think about it, the more inconsistoncies I find with the concept of God.
So now, I tend to lean more towards agnostism/athiesm. For me lately, the world makes much more sense without God, than it does with him. I would believe in him, were he to provide me with a definite unmistakable sign. I have asked, but nothing was provided, so this leads me to a new question:
If God isn’t willing to reveal himself to someone who is losing their faith, then what’s the point in believing in him at all? And how much less can we believe those people in biblical times and now, who claim that god speaks directly to them? Why them, and not others?
I find the people who claim that god speaks directly to them are likely suffering a delusion, brought about by strong religious belifs and actions. In other words, they brainwash themselves into thinking that god is speaking to them. That’s just my opinion. There are some cases where this is shown to be correct, but it is possible that it doesn’t apply to everyone.
Thanks again all. No offense to any of you out there, by the way.
okay, all these things are from Genesis. Disregarding everything because of what is in Genesis is hasteful. It is like someone saying that Star Wars is a bad film because the opening line is “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away” but they are speaking english. Genesis is allegorical, God’s love is real. if God wanted us to be His sock puppets, He’d give nightly performances where he rained sulfur on a random town. But God doesn’t want puppets, that’s why He gave us free will, and the choice to come to Him.
Might want to check out, “The Templar Revelation”. I mention this for serious researchers only as they do indeed have a large reference section listed to back up their claims. How much liberty they took with those claims is itself a matter of debate, at least for me (since I don’t have the time or resources myself to check them out!), but they did seem to argue their points pretty conclusively. I especially liked the authors’ final chapter, which presents three seperate (sorta) conclusions which would fit all the evidence found (or only what they chose to present?).
However, as the reader who does pick it up will soon surmise, it is a tale about secret societies since the dawn of Christianity, and so any scholar who does attempt such a work will, in many circles, be laughed out of their public research.
I will not possibly spoil the book for it is an incredible read, and anyone who is seriously interested in Christianity should check it out.
No problem. But while you are fixated upon the scope of the miracles themselves, you are neglecting the scope of their experience. This is a WAG for illustration only, but I would suppose that perhaps one-thousandth of one percent of the people alive on earth witnessed Jesus multiplying the loaves and fishes (assuming a world population of 100,000,000 and attendence of 1,000 at the Sermon on the Mount). Besides, today there are many of us in the Christian community who witness miracles that are rather dramatic and spectacular. But you don’t believe us.
Indeed the kingdom of God is eternal. But “place” is a metaphor only. Heaven is a metaphysical state.
Exactly. And there are many who refuse to listen to the Love Everlasting.
Cranky
Thanks for at least leaving me an out.
But let me ask you this. If I had prefaced this portion of my post with something other than Cranky, and if I had quoted someone else, would you presume that I was addressing you? Likewise, if you are seeking proof for a genie in a bottle, why ought God, Who is Love, to respond to your inquiry, when you are addressing someone else?
I have here an excerpt from a certain Aleister Crowley who was, by no stretch of the imagination, not a Christian. however, the excerpt largely applies here as well. Lib, I thought you might especially like this. (in fact, I originally intended only to email it to you, but alas, that was not possible, so I’m squeezing it in here. I think it fits.)
It is an excerpt from his novel, “Moonchild”, and is part of a conversation about why the true magicians are always so quiet. Crowley may have been a nut, I reserve my judgement, but he wasn’t a stupid nut if he was crazy. This book was published in 1917 and no doubt takes a largish portion of his personal teachings into it which, in no small way, invlove our physical bodies merely being a lesser-dimensional manifestation of our souls, which actually reside in a larger “space.” Intriguing. Must have read “Flatland.” At any rate…
At any rate, it lends to the idea that Lib is hinting at. You’re looking for this vengeful god and then wonder why he isn’t turning up. You’re looking for a miracle worker and then wonder why he doesn’t turn up. I especially like Lib’s mention of “Miracles Worked” vs “population” which, I’m sure we can all agree, is a very small number indeed.
If something is “out there,” which I no longer doubt, the idea will come to you in the exact manner by which you require to be convinced. Will it only take a miracle to make you believe, or will a miracle still not do it when explained away by chance, coincidence, or science itself? So why expect a miracle which, obviously to God (or Eris, as the case may be), would accomplish nothing but mockery of anyone who believed in it?
At any rate, carry on…
*[sub]I have no idea what a Verendum is, even after a somewhat exhaustive web search. Apart from being a conjugation in latin, I found no mention of what it actually is to a magician. Oh well. Not terribly interested in knowing anyway, but I thought it would wind up the post nicely.[/sub]
Well, not really neglecting it. But personal experience is inherently subjective, whereas pillars of flame and unconsumable shrubs are much closer to objective. And it’s such miracles from the OT that no longer seem to occur.
Ah, but do you witness them a thousand people at a time?
I assure you, if a thousand people in my city of 50,000 all witnessed the same miracle, I would certainly take notice.
I believe anyone who tells me that he has had a deeply personal spiritual experience. But again, as that experience is so very subjective, I cannot put it in the same category as, say, a global flood. Miracle? If you say so. But I’m still wondering how many people have been turned into pillars of salt lately.
Again, that’s your interpretation. Many (I’d venture to say most) Christians cannot comprehend of Heaven as a nonplace.
But I think the OP’s question still holds, whether Heaven is a real place or a state of mind.
Second, I found your exerpt enormously interesting. It is true enough that a gang of rednecks grilling out at their trailer park might scoff at the notion that Shakespeare’s work is beautiful, and the task of proving its beauty to them is problematically daunting. Interestingly, Jesus describes faith in God in an almost opposite metaphor. Rather than being understood by the intellectually superior Pharisees and Saducees, faith, He said, is better understood by children. “Father, thank you for hiding these things from the learned and wise, and for revealing them to children and to those whose minds are simple.” — Jesus
Andros
Oh, they did. They did. They killed Him.
Oh. [slapping forehead…]
It’s been so long since my conversion that sometimes I forget your point-of-view (your reference frame). Any arbitrary miracle can be explained eventually in scientific terms. It’s just atoms moving around. As Jesus noted, we are doing even greater things than He. For example, Jesus never put a man on the moon and brought him back. The wonder in miracles is not how spectacular they are, but how well-timed.
Places are made of energy or mass. God is Spirit. “In that day, many will call out my name, saying ‘Lord, Lord! Did we not do mighty miracles in your name?’ and I will say, 'Get away from me, you evil-doers! I never knew you!” — Jesus
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Prof. Dumbledore *
The bible however has been changed and messed around with alot…so like you’ll never find two copies of the Quran that are different from each other but you’ll find a lot of versions of the bible which is pretty dissappointing 'cos it means that there are so many versions of what God said…hence the BIG CONFUSION amongst christians.
I am not offended by what you said Prof. Dumbledore but you did make a misleading statement about the reliability of the Bible.
There are around 24,000 extant manuscripts of the New Testament. Homer’s Iliad has the second most number of extant manuscripts with 643. The NT thus can lay claim to having, by far, the largest number of manuscripts of any book from antiquity.
The NT was written near the end of the first century. The earliest complete manuscript of the NT was from the 4th century–about 250 to 300 years after the original.
Fragments of the Gospel of John, found in Egypt, were from around 130 AD–about 30 years after the NT was completed.
In comparison, the oldest known manuscript of Sophocles’ plays was written 1400 years after Sophocles died. There are other examples: the oldest known manuscript of Herodotus’ History were written 1300 years after his death; the earliest copies of Aristotle’s works were written in 1100 AD. I could go on and on about this.
What is clear is that no other ancient text had a shorter time between its original writing and its first copies.
The NT has 20,000 lines while The Iliad has 15,600. Only 40 NT lines (about 400 words) are in question while The Iliad has 764 questioned lines.
A quote from Norman Geisler and William Nix: “Only about one-eighth of all the variants [in the New Testament] had any weight, as most of them are merely mechanical matters such as spelling or style. Of the whole, then, only about one-sixtieth rise above ‘trivialities,’ or can in sense be called ‘substantial variations.’ Mathematically this would compute to a text that is 98.33 percent pure.”
So, the NT is the ancient text that has the most documented extant copies, the shortest length of time between the original and the manuscripts, and the least amount of discrepancies in the texts. Given that, you cannot say that the Bible has been corrupted, it has not. You have to accept it or reject.
I found your post to be very interesting and informative regarding (at least) one Muslim person’s take on issues that are too often (in the US, anyway) presumed to be comprehensible soley from a Christian standpoint. That being said, and with genuine respect for the content of your post, can I say that I find your use of (presumably) I/M-inspired contractions such as “'cos” and “tho” distracting? It may sound funny, but I found they made it harder for me to get through your message.
Am I the only one who doesn’t know what “IPU” means in the context of this thread? If so, please pardon my ignorance. Enlightenment (no pun intended) would be appreciated.
If people deviated from His teachings back when the most advanced form of technology was Iron weapons, what makes you think miracles in today’s high-tech world are going to have any effect?
And most Biologists actually do believe in a “Original couple” theory.
See you at the Pizza Parlor Dr.Lao
