Hello All,
I guess I much have too much time on my hands because it leads me to think critically on things such as God. I was raised a Catholic and I do believe that there is a God. What disturbs me is that when I try to think of the existence of God in a reasonable light I sometimes question what I believe. Of course it bothers me that I question my faith, but I guess that is what humans with a brain do.
So, my latest thought (and stay with me here) today was that Jesus Christ spread the word of God, there were miracles performed and that is basically what “convinced” the people in this region to belive in God and christianity. (Yes, I may have my facts confused a bit, I am just sketching broad strokes here).
So, the people who knew Jesus and witnessed the miracles certainly have a reason to believe. My question is: If God exist and wants all humans to know and believe in him why was Jesus confined to a single geographical point on earth. The Native Americans and the native Africans would know nothing of Jesus until they were told of his existence by Europeans colonizing their lands. So, in order to believe they had to take a second hand account and believe what they are being told. Why wouldn’t God send (for the lack of a better word) a representative to different localations across the Earth so all humans at one point in time would have had first hand knowledge? Becuase he didn’t, the majority of the World has to take the word of others that this is true and not a made up story.
I hope that I have made some sense in what I am trying to get across. I truly do believe that there is a God, but sometimes my thinking side convices me that our Christian God is no different than the Sun or Moon Gods of the early, less civalized cultures. It makes me very torn inside. Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
There is much to doubt about the whole story of God. If you want to embrace the question without guile and openmindedly, “Breaking the Spell” by Daniel Dennett is a thoughtful read (I just finished it a few hours ago).
Broadly, I think many things about the whole story are pretty implausible, including the mystery surrounding it. I wouldn’t be that hard to convince, for an omniscient and omnipotent being - though that’s another implausibility, isn’t it? Omniscience includes knowing the future, and omnipotence includes the option to make the future different at any future time, making knowing it impossible, right?
There is a great deal to read on the question if you are interested. Besides Dennett, other questioning authors include Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens. Sometimes the four are collectively known as the Four Horsemen. All have written very useful books.
I have to admit I’m puzzled as to why anyone would consider any sort of deity to be anything other than mythological. As far as I can see, people believe in gods because they either fill an emotional need or because they’re told to believe or else there will be trouble. I don’t so much not believe in gods as I don’t pretend they’re real.
The Christian god is indeed like the gods of other cultures; nonexistent, with no evidence for it being even possible, much less real. You may believe sincerely in your god, but the followers of other gods were and are just as sincere, their beliefs just as baseless, and just as wrong.
Early people didn’t understand volcanoes, or earth quakes. or thunder storms, or lightning strikes, or eclipses, or tides, or fire, or…
Well, you get the picture. And since all knowledge of creation came from birthing and offspring, then obviously someone, or something must have been our parent or creator.
We understand much more about our surroundings now and don’t need to rely on mythology.
Never be disturbed by questioning your beliefs. It’s the only way to correct wrong beliefs and learn true ones. If the belief you’re questioning is true, the questioning will only reinforce it in the end. If the belief is false your belief in it won’t change that and it should be discarded anyway.
One of the things that kills my ability to believe is watching new religions spring up. Modern neo-paganism, for instance, has (in some instances) come to embrace Tolkien’s “Elbereth” as a spirit, and I have seen ceremonies and prayers offered to her. The historical origin and rise of Islam is not all that different from the origin and rise of the Mormon church…or of Scientology…
Trinopus
To all you SD’s. Thank for the well thought out and considerate replies. I have been in many fourms on the internet and I was very hesitant to post this question. The reason being that in every other site that the discussion of religion comes up it seems to turn into an instant flamewar. Belivers on one side and non-believers on the other. Instead of gaining anything usefull, it just ends up being an incredible stupid argument.
Reinforces one belief that I know is true. The people at SD a reasonable, helpful and respectful of others opinions and beliefs. Congrats everyone.
Sorry for the spelling errors. Must be a bit more tired than I thought.
It is a fact that there is nothing ever written,read, thought, or taught that wasn’t by a human, so one believes in what a human has to say about God weither it is: the word of God,inspired by God, or told by God. That is what Faith is, a belief in what, or who, one chooses to believe, it is a tool to help one get through life.
If some one said now days that God told them anything that person would not be believed by many, and no one can say in truth that God said anything,inspired anything, or did anything.
Good summary, many people before you have wondered the same thing. Chrisitanity has a great deal of trouble reconciling things like this with the concept of a benevolent God. The field of Chrisitian apologetics will contain a number of rationalistations for this, but I can’t find anything specific. Some christians might stress the importance of free will, and say that once Christ revealed himself it was up to mankind to spread his word. It’s not impossible to explain rationally, but I personally find these justifications unsatisfying. The simplest explanation is that the bible is not divinely inspired, and either there is no God, or it’s nature is unknown.
God’s Word states if you seek Him you will find Him, there is no room for exceptions in that. God does not say if you seek me but you are on a island nation that has not heard of me you are SOL.
To find God you simply have to seek Him, it doesn’t matter where you are in the world or what is around you. King David sought the Lord and found Him, David knew Him personally, manifested gifts of the Holy Spirit, yet Jesus was his still to be conceived great great … grandson.
So you don’t have to know the new testament scriptures to know Jesus, if you seek Him you will find Him.
Many Native Americas know Him, know the Holy Spirit (called the Great Spirit) and the Father (called Grandfather). They have the path, the way many know God better then many Christians.
What about the name of Jesus? Is that important, well yes, but not by name. It’s important to realize that there is a son of God/ son of man because that is us, it is our inheritance to the kingdom, though we don’t have to call Him Jesus. Also there is a female counterpart as well. Scriptures state that you baptize in the name of Jesus, but Jesus states you baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So which one is right. They all are. There is a line of scripture that ‘even the demons know that God is one, and they shutter’. You can use any name for God you chose as long as you mean God, as they all are God, equally God as Father is equally God as Son is equally God as Holy Spirit.
Scriptures also state that God is Love, therefore you can baptize in the name of Love, and that opens the door to any name for God that means Love. So all Gods that mean Love is the one true God. When you baptize or act in the name of Love (or any God that means Love), you are taking God’s name as your own and recognizing the son of God within yourself - Jesus
The miracles were sort of a failure in that capacity, they were more of what Jesus needed couldn’t be handed in the natural, such as needing to make a boat that already left, He had to walk on water to make his ship.
People have a need to feel that there is a “reason” for things. Most people aren’t comfortible with the idea that everything happens because it happens, not as part of any grand scheme. Belief in a diety helps them make sense of the world when bad (or good) things happen. Success and good fortune are the result of faith and belief while tradgedy and misfortune are either a result of failure to follow God’s teachings or God is testing you beliefs (depending if that misfortune happens to you or other people).
It’s no so much a misunderstanding of how things work, but why.
This is The Straight Dope Message Boards you’re talking about? :eek:
The problem with the OP’s question is that he/she assumes that Jesus was the *only *instrument of God, or was an instrument of God at all. So I think the problem then becomes with Christianity and not God himself. You can believe in God without it conforming to the Nicean creed.
The same lack of basis exists with any god belief. Any belief in a scriptural or revealed authority is equally unfounded and irrational. We have no evidence that any god has ever, ever ever revealed itself to anyone. All revelation and scripture is made up by people. All god belief is based on the say so of other people, none of which have anymore evidence than anybody else.
This is typically where believers resort to the “I just know in my heart,” bullshit. Wishful thinking. Self delusion. If God exists, he doesn’t have to be coy. There is no moral value in believing something without reason or proof.
Thanks for the indepth reply. Then this brings up this question. I understand the concept of seek Him and you will find Him. But how does that apply to humans that a) never heard of God or Jesus or b) because of society/location. If this human has absolutely no concept of God or instead decieds to worship a rock because he has no other reference how does that play out. Is he denied entrance into Heavan because he is ignorant. Seek Him is reasonable if you know that God exist to seek. But how can you seek something that you don’t know exist?
There is no universal Christian answer to that, but in some denominations, any sincere attempt to seek out a higher power is seen as equivalent to seeking out Christ.
What the… Wait! What’s happening? Suddenly I feel obligated to question and doubt whether I am reasonable, helpful and respectful!
Whoa. Didn’t see THAT coming.
I think you have to consider the “seek Him and you will find Him” advice on the basis that it is typically being given at the margin of belief, to people who have access to various accounts of Him. The idea is that this idea of God which is already part of the discussion will become part of the listener’s belief if the listener acts on a preference to believe.
It wouldn’t be relevant if you are considering people who have had no other opportunity to hear the stories of this particular god.