Back to the subject: For you Christian posters with children, what do you tell your children when they ask if loved ones are in Heaven? What about pets?
There is also the Buddhist “waking stick”, a rod or switch used be Zen Masters to whack inattentive students, because it is believed pain is a form of learning.
Is there variety and/or individuality in Heaven?
Why don’t you go there, then report back. We’ll then have the concrete evidence you’re asking for. What? You can’t without dying? Color me surprised.
I thought this was a thread about what Christians believe. Do you have a problem with my questions?
Well, yeah. They seem (I could be reading wrong, and so welcome correction) to be based on the idea of “Is it actually true?”, rather than “What do they believe is true.”
Two entirely different questions, but as I said, I may be reading you wrong about which question you’re responding to. People can, and do, believe mutually contradictory ideas. They just have to avoid thinking too hard about them. The first question requires thought about it, the second does not. I’m confused about which you are taking.
Those who believe they know the truth are going to post as thought their opinions were facts.
The thread can proceed without making an issue regarding what is or is not true.
[ /Moderating ]
I’m not sure what you mean by this, or which poster is being addressed. All I was doing was asking a question about how Christian parents address the issue of Heaven, loved ones and pets with their children. I didn’t bring up anything about the reality of Heaven itself, nor did I even hint that I was going to.
There was a fun comic book about a guy who refused to go to Heaven, when he learned his cat was denied entry. He followed his cat to the “cat afterlife” instead.
At least some dogs show pretty strong evidence of awareness of right and wrong. Maybe all dogs don’t go to Heaven…but at least a few fully deserve to.
(Not a Christian, not a believer, just someone with opinions.)
Billions have died before us, only thing that seems concrete about it, is that they’re dead. The bible lists some that went to heaven without dying. And of course, there are those that had NDE that supposedly made it. Then there is the OBE crowd who also have said to been there. It’s evidence in the form of personal revelations and holy writs, but that’s the weakest kind of evidence, nothing that has any meat on the bone. So I think the atheists will still make the best out of this life, and evidently folk that claim to believe in heaven, seem to not be in any hurry either, which is telling enough. If suicide is a sin, don’t see that many taking up hang gliding, skydiving, rock climbing, booking a trip to Syria either.
12 years of Catholic schooling here, pal. Not a great deal ever taught about heaven per se in my experience, other than be good or you might not go there. Truth be told, I learned more about heaven from those Holy Bible picture books they had at the doctor’s office waiting room. The kind with the heavenly choirs of angels singing praises and supplications unto God on the tops of big billowing clouds. To be honest, I thought well if that’s heaven, that looks pretty boring. But to be fair, there are a whole ton of different beliefs about the afterlife even among Christians. Sometimes I think it’s exactly what we want it to be, just like hell.
Seems to me the hardest thing for us to accept is the losing the consciousness we have now aspect of death and dying. Where does all that energy go? And if you’re just going to become a drone in the afterlife, what’s the point?
No need to ‘last words’. It’s a process, remember? 
I hope I have provided you with something to think about and I will let you know that I appreciate these discussions (they don’t lapse into name calling or hostileness which I am grateful) because they hone my own thinking about my beliefs and my faith. So perversely my faith becomes stronger because of the arguments that you present that I have to think through (which is a very Jewish concept, mind - civil argument being a major part of religion).
Anyways, I don’t have experience being an atheist in South GA. I realize my experience of being an atheist in Atlanta for 10 years is not nearly the same, but I wish you more acceptance in the future for those who claim to be following Christ.
Good question. I dunno. I’d like to think that there is - or at least in the Age to Come (as the Anglican theologian N.T. Wright calls it "life after life after death). Maybe in the middle period of Heaven, it’s just disembodied souls waiting for the new Heavens and the new Earth.
Middle period? Explain, please?
If there is an Age to Come (after Jesus comes back), the period of a separate Heaven and Earth, which we currently reside in, is the middle period.
Dante’s Paradiso is actually kind of nice. Everybody has a place, and is content with it.
Dante’s vision of “The Eagle” was particularly stunning, being so far ahead of its time. The Eagle was a formation of thousands of angels – sort of like a marching band forming an image on a football field – and as they moved to make it move, it seemed animated, like a real giant eagle. When they spoke as a chorus, it seemed to speak.
This suggests a partial surrender of individuality, but not a total surrender. We do the same thing every time we go and sit in a cubicle in our offices in corporate America. We’re part of something vaster than we are, but our individual contributions are still important.
A drone is a good description, I think, of what we would have to become.
Besides our own mortality, if we live long enough, we will all unfortunately have to experience such losses with loved ones. It’s living hell enough, and harder than losing our own lives, I think. Time is your friend. A week later after losing a close family member, the pain lets up slightly. A month later, a bit more. A year, and another, the pain eases and you hopefully still have a few other loved ones and good friends that still make life worth living. I look on the bright side. Time will either heal you or kill you. Either way, problem solved.
I find comfort in knowing the dead do not suffer. At worse, it’s a perfect dreamless sleep. If I was wrong, and there was a God, I also find comfort in knowing any being worthy of such a title doesn’t give a hoot on whether or not you believed in him or not. And whatever our thought process of wishing this or that, doesn’t alter or change the outcome one iota (conservative theology aside), so other than entertainment value it may provide, no sense wasting time on it.
So I make the most of this life, not giving thanks or being angry towards any god, because I truly don’t think any exist. Enjoyed the ride thus far, and will continue to do so as long as I have reasonably good health, and have some loved ones and close friends to share it with.
If atheists are wrong, he’ll forgive us, because that’s his job. He might have some explaining to do, however, we would probably all have to be a drone to forgive him.
You are very eloquent, Tom, I allways learn some new insult or way to make a clever snide remark when I read one of your lectures… however…
I must say your comments protecting the inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible are a bit odd… for the debate section… of a forum who’s stated purpose is to fight ignorance.
This is rather meaningless. I have “protected” nothing. My statements are all accurate–which supports the goal of The Straight Dope.
Oh, I’m sorry, I guess I need to use another word (besides protect) to describe a 4 paragraph lecture indicating to me how I do not understand the bible or the history of religion. How about defend? Is that better?