A few questions regarding college, ACT scores

In My Humble Opinion
21

OK, well, I just asked my husband - who happens to work for Northwestern University’s Admissions Department (no, sorry, he can’t help anyone get in) and he says that it’s not without hope. A lower-than-the-school’s average ACT score is not a dealbreaker for Northwestern. As **silenus **says, other factors…well, factor in.

Northwestern, like many schools, uses a point system - applicants are evaluated in several different areas. A lack in one area can be made up for by a strength in another. The most important things for NU are the entrance essay and strong involvement in activities - ideally, a few substantial (in terms of time and dedication) activities that the student has been involved in for a decent amount of time. Flitting around doing chess club, AV and the yearbook for three months each is not what they want to see. But it sounds like he’s got some good stuff going for him there.

After those areas, GPA bears a great deal of weight, unsurprisingly. So if he’s got some good things going on elsewhere, then his ACT score won’t hold him back from admissions. Just don’t let him half-ass the essay. My husband insists that that is the single most important and influential part of Northwestern’s application.

As for the “is Northwestern worth it?” question: that’s a hard one. They are a great school, no doubt. But Illinois’ state schools are all very good as well. It probably depends on what sort of career he hopes to pursue and how much of a “good ol’ boys” network it demands. If a lot of successful people who could help him advance in his career went to NU or will be impressed by a degree from NU, then it’s probably worth it just for the foot in the door. If not, maybe you want to save your money.

22

You need to be systemaic about getting information to guide you in college admissions… Your son, for instance, should apply to several schools: a “reach” (unlikely to get in but it would be awesome if you did), a “safety” (no way on god’s green earth they would reject you) and a few in the middle.

I found the Fiske Guide to American Colleges helpful back in the day – it tries to give you a feel for the different colleges; Barrons is another popular college guidebook that mostly focuses on stats.

23

I don’t know your financial situation, so I’m assuming that the test fees won’t be a big deal, but the tuition and other costs might.

First, I think he should retake the test. His score is high enough that a couple of points might make a world of difference. Apparently, 55% increase their composite score. That might be worth it if he really has his heart set on Northwestern. You can find info on retaking at the ACT website. ACT Registration | ACT Testing Dates | The ACT Test

I also think he should take the SAT. Doing so will expand his options, as many schools look at only the SAT.

Finally, I want to reiterate a point made upthread. 28 was also the cut-off for an automatic free ride at my school. I know you said your son’s counselor thought he should be able to get scholarships to Northwestern, but at some state schools, he probably qualifies for an automatic full scholarship. There’s not the uncertainty or the hassle of applying for multiple scholarships, plus it would also cover housing and possibly books. If the money matters to you at all, it is worth looking at the scholarship opportunities at state universities.

24

Missy - hope you don’t mind if I piggyback on your thread? I was hoping to get some opinions from the same folk who answered you.

My kid got his ACT results and did really well - 32 cumulative. The only thing is he wants to go into engineering, which I understand is very competitive. I think he is around 7% in his HS class.

U of I - his first choice, says the middle 50% of last year’s incoming engineer students had ACTs between 30-32, SAT of 1310-1450, and class rank of 88-97%.

He’s taking the SAT this weekend. He said he felt good about all of the sections except science, which he did not finish and just guessed on the final 5 questions.

So do you folks think he should even think about a retake, or should he just hope this is good enough? I hate to sound anything other than totally supportive and thrilled, seeing as he is doing so much better than I ever did in HS.

Missy - so did you and your son look into schools over the weekend?

25

Dinsdale,
I’d wait and see what his SAT scores look like, but if he’s on the high side of the “middle 50%”, I wouldn’t worry too much about him being accepted. I guess that’s a vote for don’t bother to retake.

26

I went to NU. It’s a great school and I’m glad that your son is applying! 28 is a great score on the ACT and it’s certainly not too low for NU. But it is low enough that he probably needs everything else on his application to be stellar-- extracurriculars, essay, GPA, SAT. It also doesn’t hurt to have some kind of minority status, or choose a ‘nontypical’ major-- a white woman majoring in computer science, for example. The bottom line, though, is that Northwestern is an extremely selective school, and no student is assured admission. I would definitely advise your son to line up some ‘safety’ schools as well.

In my case, my extracurriculars were very weak, and I’m a white male, but I had a solid GPA, aced the SAT, and almost aced the ACT. So it is possible to make up for definciencies in important areas by doing well in others. On the other hand, I was rejected from some similar-tier schools like MIT and Carnegie-Mellon. So who can say.

27

Of COURSE not. :slight_smile:

FANTASTIC!! You must be very proud!!

(Snipping the middle part since I can’t answer the questions with any semblence of intelligence. :smiley: )

We talked - and talked. He’s TIRED of talking to me. He’s decided to talk to the naval recruiter first before he goes any further - he didn’t want to go the library and actually research anything - he figured the recruiter can tell him everything and I wasn’t going to push it. Oh - and he’s going to talk to his guidance counselor about retaking the test. He’s not sure about it.

I did talk to him about other STATE schools - and he had thought that NU WAS a state school. Then I explained tuition. So he did a little :smack: - and then said he was going to talk to the counselor about alternatives and get some info on other state schools so he could have his ACT results sent there too.

Kids. I don’t know if I’m going to survive. :smiley:

ETA - I just wanted to say Thank you! to everyone who helped my son and I out - I really appreciate all of your comments/anecdotes/advice/etc.

Autumn, yeah, we figured his other stuff would have to be almost perfect - I think NU is going to be out of the picture. We’ll see. :slight_smile:

28

Yeah - I am. Which is also why I feel kinda like a shit for wondering if it isn’t good enough for what he wants to do! :rolleyes:
His shortlist is Uof I, Wisc., and Purdue. Scores, grades, etc. should be enough to get into one of them, but my bank acct would sure appreciate in-state tuition!

Yeah, I know how that goes. But let me relate a little of what I seem to have experienced with my 3 kids. Tho they act all bored and insulted at my input, if I present it the right way and then just let it drop, more often than not I will later hear them express preferences that at least reflect some aspect of my input.

Like I said, I asked my kids a bunch of questions just to get them thinking about the right things. Even tho they often did not care for these discussions, later I would sense that they had spurred the kids to think about necessary things and narrow down their options/preferences.

I did a bunch of research myself on-line. For one of my kid I simply e-mailed her addresses. For another I printed off material. I also encouraged them to talk to other people about it, like music teachers, teachers from whom they would want recommendations, counsellors, etc.

Your kids’ choice of major makes a big difference on what schools might be best. So many folk act as tho U of I is the best state school for everything. Well, IMO a good argument can be made that ISU or NIU are better for majors like education/music education (my oldest kid). And NIU has a very good accounting school. Plus, the other state schools aren’t quite as huge and (IME) impersonal as U of I.

Unlike NU, many private schools offer considerable aid which brings their costs down to a level close to the state schools.

Re: the navy recruiter. While I have great respect for folks serving in the military, realize of course that he is far from an objective, disinterested source of info.

29

Well good luck to him! He should look into Washington University in St. Louis, MO as well. It’s a similar school to NU, but they do give substantial merit-based scholarships.

30

Got a niece who goes there. Can attest that it is certainly comparable to NU in terms of stratospheric tuition! :wink:

(Maybe I’m a reverse snob, but I just don’t understand most kids paying huge tuitions for undergrad at pricey colleges. My niece is studying some kind of bio-chem-physics-engineering, of which I understand Wash U is tops in the country. And her folks are quite comfortable. But for an average income family where the kid isn’t passionate about a certain major a certain school excels in, I just don’t see how they are worth the premium they charge.)

31

I don’t think you are just a reverse snob. I went to a school that was not (then) as stratospheric as NU is now. I graduated 10 years ago. It looks to me like they are now in the same ballpark. When I was looking at colleges, 25K should have covered tuition and room and board for all but the priciest of colleges. Today, it’s 33K for tuition alone. ~6K Room, ~4K board, and a few more thousand for incidentals. People complain about the high cost of textbooks, but I don’t think that has actually gone up appreciably in the past decade. (At least based on my memory, coupled with the numbers on the webpage).

I picked my school based on small size, good academics, good reputation, location, and on the fact that the sun was shining the day we toured the campus–at least according to my mother. I loved it.

But while $25K a year didn’t seem excessive to me at the time, I look at NU’s estimated costs of $46K/yr, and cringe. (My college declines to add up the numbers for you–though they boast about financial aid ad nauseum).

I would not have thrived at college the way I did had I gone to a large state school, just to save money. And small, private, pricey schools are generally pretty good about providing buckets of financial aid–not all of which must be paid back later.

And there are choices out there besides “Enormous, cheap state schools” and “small, private, Pricey colleges.”

But I don’t think that it’s pureuly reverse snobbishness which says “Wait a minute, is it really better to attend a small, private, pricey school and end up drowning in student loans, than it is to attend a school which you can come close to affording?”

Certainly, dearly as I loved my college roommate(and her husband), when I look at their house, and cars, I wonder what they might be able to afford, were they not also needing to pay down her student loans. (She and her husband have had employment issues as well. Not to mention two small children. And I am well aware that I am fortunate in my parents’ and grandparents’ ability to pay for stuff. )