He plays golf the way I play golf. Life is too short to spend time trying to fight my way out of a bush or hit another bad shot because my first bad shot wound up in some junk. If I’m playing golf, it’s to enjoy my day, not be endlessly frustrated.
That said, I don’t play for money.
Of course, at $5 a round, you’re not playing for money either.
I think if it happens again, I would just say something like, “5 - I thought it was 6. 1 in th ebush, 2 penalty, 3 to the green 4 on and 2 putts.” Then he’d either say, “Oh yeah, you’re right.” Or, “No, it was a 5. I 1-putted.”
It is not entirely uncommon for someone to inadvertently miscount their strokes, especially if they hacked up a hole and are trying to forget some especially bad shots.
That’s my thought as well. I’m not a golfer, but I am a person who’s been responsible for mediating hundreds of “HE CHEATED!” disputes on the playground. The majority of those disputes turn out to involve an unstated disagreement about the rules, and can be solved by defining the rules more precisely.
Were I in your situation, I think I’d take one of these three actions:
Well, “kinda small” can be in the eye of the beholder. If it in any way involves me, even indirectly, it’s “kinda big” as far as I’m concerned. If, however, I hear my bud telling her boyfriend over the phone that she was home working last night instead of out partying, I could care less.
Just as a reminder - the group has played by the same rules for 30 years. This guy has played at least 10-15 times a year for the past 5 years or so, and his best buddy has played longer. The one rule that is most common is if something unusual happens, where we suspect a pro might need a ruling in a tournament, you ask the other guys, “Can I do x? WHere do I drop? How do I count the penalty?”
When you say “most common,” do you mean that this rule is explicitly stated at the beginning of every game? Or that you assume everyone is playing by it?
Given everything you’ve said about this guy’s character, is it possible that he doesn’t think this is something that needs a ruling, that he assumes in a game this low-stakes people will just play with loose rules?
Again: in my experience, in the vast majority of times that people think someone is cheating, it’s an unspoken disagreement over the rules.
Would you have noticed he was not taking the penalty stroke in all those years? Would other players? Have you carefully watched other players (especially the ones he’s closest to) to see how they handle it?
I don’t think the money is the issue. I play bridge with no money at stake, but people care who wins. And different people in the group play with slightly different rules as to how to handle exceptions. (Someone pulls the wrong card, misbids, etc.) I’m over of the people who prefers less stringency (“there’s a reason i don’t play tournaments”) In our case, it’s obvious when these differences arise, because the whole table has to agree on what happens next. And it sometimes creates a little tension. But we all enjoy the game together.
Is there any activity that you have engaged in with the same group of people for many many years, in which there seem to be certain agreed upon practices that everyone adheres to? Add on the layer that there ARE official rules that are - at least a guide. Plus, we’re spending a couple of hours largely just walking and standing around. So there is plenty of time to ask, “Do you want the flag in or out?” “Is it OK if I give myself a better lie here in the airway?”
No, we do not stand around at the beginning of every round and discuss every applicable golf rule. But, for example, there are OB fences on a couple of holes. Some folk (not our group) play that you get a free drop from the fence. So in such instances, folk will say, “Do I get a free drop here?”
I remember one time in a league on the same course, I was playing in the finals of a tournament. The other guy drove into a hilly area in the rough where there was gravel in a drainage ditch. I said, “Give yourself a lie.” And, instead of dropping in the rough next to the gravel, the asshole turned towards and tossed his ball 20’ into the fairway! Not sure whether that was ballsy, stupid, or both, but I said, “No, I didn’t mean toss your ball into the fairway!”
Yeah, I think he probably extended the “rule” that our primary interest is that everyone enjoy themselves and have a good time. We don’t take it too seriously, and I guess maybe in the first instance he just viewed this as if he had happened to end up on a bare patch or a divot in the fairway and wanted to place his ball on some grass. But I don’t see any way any modestly serious golfer would think that they didn’t have to take a penalty stroke when they lose a ball. If I’m being generous, I’ll figure he just miscounted as he was piling up strokes.
Thanks for the feedback, folks!
I’m not sure this is as relevant as you think it is, since, incontrovertibly, not everyone adheres to this practice.
The more you describe it, the more it sounds like you’re assuming he’s got the same understanding of things you have, and is deliberately flouting it, but you’re not checking to make sure he has the same understanding. Am I wrong?
No, I generally don’t watch others carefully and count their strokes. In this group, we play for skins - whoever has the lowest score on each hole, with carryovers from ties. There had been 3 carryovers, so the 4th hole was worth 2. (In our game there are various ways to win .50-$1 here or there, so you are kinda aware of that. No one expects to retire on their winnings, but most folk would prefer to go home up a buck rather than down.)
So you are kinda aware of whether you are poised to have a better score than the other 3 guys and win the skin. This guy and I basically played the hole the same, except I didn’t need a penalty stroke ater my drive. So I figured I was going to win the skins. Not a big deal, I figured I might have miscounted, and I didn’t play the hole so great myself so I figured I’d just win one of the next holes.
I’ve played plenty of golf where I was responsible for keeping the opponent’s score, or where more $ was on the line. This is not that sort of a situation.
If you play bridge with the same folk every week, do these differences continue to arise?
I don’t know that I care to go into this much more. As I said upthread, when he mentioned moving his ball I commented about taking an unplayable lie which costs a stroke. So that pretty clearly comunicated that I was aware of the situation and believed a stroke was involved. During a casual Sunday morning walk in the park, I did not care to take it futher. I suspect everyone has engaged in an activity where 1 person takes upon themself the role of “rules expert/enforcer.” I have no desire to assume that role, nor does the group desire it.
Yes. One guy cares more about winning than anyone else, and tends to want to enforce rules on others but is happy to take leniency when he makes a mistake. Another woman prefers to play “how the director would rule”, that is, more strictly overall, and she wants to play that way regardless of who makes the mistake (so she took a loss Sunday when she made a mistake.) And there are people like me who prefer to let others correct minor mistakes without penalty, and also rankle when others won’t let me do so.
Ambiguous situations aren’t that common, so it’s not a big deal deal. The overall rule is that if anyone insists on strictness, we do that.
I read that. I don’t interpret that as a “clear communication.” It’s the kind of comment whose import someone can easily miss; or if they catch it, they might consider it passive-aggressive sniping and decide the graceful thing to do is to pretend they don’t get it.
I know that if someone made such a comment to me, and I thought they were insinuating that I was cheating, I’d be very likely to give a faint smile and ignore the comment, lower my opinion of the commenter, and move on with my life. I’d expect them to say something very clear to me if they had an issue with how I play, so that I could address it clearly, instead of making oblique criticisms like that.
But it doesn’t seem like you’re open to the idea that it’s a misunderstanding; you seem fairly convinced that he believes he’s cheating. Okey dokey.
I made that comment before we had finished the hole. So I had zero expectation at that time that he would not count that stroke.
I think your final comment somewhat misrepresents what I have expressed in this thread. But I’ll remember to just give a faint smile… 
If you think I’m being passive-aggressive, I’m clearly off my game. Are you saying that you aren’t convinced that he believes he’s cheating? Be clear, man!
I’m open to all possible interpretations and suggestions for how to deal with it. Twice he misstated his score. I’ve stated above how I intend to deal with it if it happens again. As I see it, the options are pretty much:
-he miscounted;
-he didn’t know penalty strokes were called for;
-he knew he was stating the wrong score, but didn’t think it important because…;
-he knew he was stating the wrong score, but did it intentionally fore whatever reason.
For me, an ostensibly intelligent person failed to correctly count up to 7 twice out of 9 chances. On one occasion, he started a discussion with about moving his ball, and in my response, I observed that a penalty stroke was involved. In the other, he hit it in the same river twice, but took a penalty stroke for one but not both.
I like the guy. I know he is not trying to intentionally scam me out of $.50. So I’m just trying to make sense out of behavior that seems foreign to me. Just trying to figure out how to interact with the humans!
If, in the second option, you change “know” to “agree,” that’s the outcome that I think should be seriously considered. The rules of the game are only what have been agreed to, and it sounds like y’all haven’t had an explicit agreement.
Just curious - do you golf? I’ve only played for 50 years or so, with all manner of people, on all manner of courses, and for money and not. It is extremely hard for me to imagine that a person with any experience of the game would NOT think that one counts penalty strokes when there is even a penny being wagered.
This isn’t like it is some obscure never encountered rule or anything.
As I said before, my expertise isn’t golf: it’s in mediating accusations of cheating in low-stakes contests. Either you think it’s possible that “he didn’t know penalty strokes were called for,” or you don’t think that; but you seem to be going back and forth on this point.
Thanks for your input. I don’t have anything else to add at this point.