A friend, my wife, her panties. NSFW

In My Humble Opinion
41

I strongly disagree with the view Simple Linctus has put forward.

He was using her property for sex. He needed to obtain her consent to use her property in that way. The fact that he did this shows his utter lack of respect for her or for boundaries. She is well within her rights to feel violated.

It was up to her, not him, to make the call that no harm would be done; for all any of us know, he could have been using them in a way that could have transmitted STDs.

You do realize that for certain definitions of “harm,” you could use this exact same reasoning to justify groping, or worse. It utterly disregards the fact that people have a fundamental right to decide how and when they and their things are used for sex.

42

…and hopefully cleaned up afterwards. Ew.

43

Absolutely tell your wife. Your trust in this guy has been broken do you really want to do the same to her trust in you?

44

I have to go with the angry mob here. :wink:

Everyone is entitled to be a pervert in their own place and with consent of all involved. No-one is entitled to act out their perversions in another’s house and using their stuff without their permission. That’s crossing the line, and the harsh fact is that it may very well be that what gets this guy off is violating boundaries. He’s proved he can’t be trusted and you have no idea what other boundaries he’s willing to violate to get off, so the only thing to do is to get rid of him and tell your wife.

45

Then tell her. You don’t want him there alone, she won’t want him there at all - it seems like the solution to me.

I think she has a right to be involved in this decision. Although it may mean she feels violated herself.

(umm, what did you do with the undies? I’m guessing she’ll be burning them…)

46

If I was the wife, I would definitely want to know. Then we could share an incredulous laugh.

Also you can see how she feels about it and the two of you can discuss it and decide how to proceed.

47

Unlike my previous post this is my genuine position: I think it’s entirely up to Crime Scene to decide whether to tell the wife and we don’t have enough information to say say whether he should one way or the other. It completely depends upon their relationship.

In a super-romanticised, lovey-dovey, no-secrets kind of “ideal marriage” then yes he should tell her.

Most relationships though, and frankly most marriages, are not like that. And as it almost certainly, practically speaking, will hurt her a whole lot to know this, it’s very much up to C.S. to judge where the lofty principles intersect with the real situation “on the ground”. Admittedly, I have not had a proper successful what I would define as long term (>2 years) relationship, so feel free to discount my advice on that basis, but it is still from observation of others’ and also shorter ones (which presumably don’t count as successful but not for this reason).

Other things to take into account include whether she will be the last to know - presumably not because others in this group of friends are going to eventually notice you ignoring this guy, and you will have to come up with a reason. If you or your wife are going to tell anyone else about this then I really think you need to give him a right of reply first. Similarly, if you pull out of his wedding you have to confront him about this and give him a right of reply.

The facts so far are, for example, consistent with the knickers being washed with the bed clothes, him going upstairs for a cheeky wank, him finding the knickers and chucking them on the floor, and you coming in at just the wrong time. They are also consistent with him just picking up any random thing from the laundry to wipe himself off. I am not saying either of these situations are plausible but they are possible. That would only be fair.

And if you don’t pull out of the wedding you are going to have to let this go. Also, if you pull out of the wedding his fiance may find out.

One thing though - if you do ruin his social life and marriage, which is potentially a worst case scenario, it is still ultimately his fault, if that makes you feel better.
*A brief digression on it harming her - note that I don’t want to say that this isn’t my opinion or is my opinion - it’s how I see things in a general sense but is not a reflection on this incident:

In a completely materialistic sense her being upset would not be a rational reaction, and you can see that even better when you consider the nature of the reaction. For example she will almost certainly want to way to throw the underwear away. This is objectively completely irrational - you can always clean them (and they were going to be cleaned anyway so it’s not even extra washing).

The reason she would want to throw them away is because of [sacred contagion](Sacred contagion).

And it’s basically human brain misfiring that causes us to over value abstract principles in the first place, which is what trust (in this context, I am not talking about trust in general) is.

48

Why tell the wife? Ignorance is bliss.

Just phase him out of your life. I doubt the wife will mind that the kinda pervy/creepy guy from her childhood becomes less of a presence.

The perv is getting married soon too. Just swallow this one and chalk it up to bad parenting and move on. I don’t get this need for unconditional disclosure.

49

I could be wrong, but in the wife’s spot I don’t think I’d even be hurt or upset about it. Creeped out, yes.

50

Quite aside from anything else, it’s going to be difficult to explain to his wife why buddy isn’t staying at his house anymore, indeed isn’t welcome to - when that had been a regular occurance. It would require some lying and covering up to manage.

On top of that, should the matter of his habits be disclosed (not that unlikely, as he’s obviously got an urge he likes to cater to), and his wife finds out that he knew about it and didn’t tell her, she’d be very rightfully pissed.

Why should the OP lie and cover up, possibly risking his wife’s anger and loss of trust? So that his wife isn’t upset?

51

I can’t believe there are people here who actually consider NOT telling their wife. Rule #1 I’ll tell my wife anything. Rule #2, don’t behave or do anything that would make rule #1 hard to follow. Wife for Life; and all that. If you don’t have trust you don’t have a good marriage.

When I first read it I honestly thought “What’s the big deal?” Then I mentally placed myself in that position. It didn’t take me long to realize that while we all may get urges to do crazy things; it’s our ability to not act on them that keeps us ‘normal’. This goes a little beyond catching someone rooting through your medicine cabinet. It’s a boundary crossing act that would make me doubt this guys decision making skills.

52

Yeah, but the OP has already established squishy boundries with the laptop p0rn sharing. So, I give Mr. Creepy some small leeway in that he’s dealing with squishy boundries. HOWEVER, as I said before, now is the time for the OP to change the dynamics and be an adult.

53

This is what I was getting at. Your kind of marriage seems to be the promoted ideal (to a subgroup of white westerners since 1950ish) but not all marriages are like that at all, they certainly weren’t historically and they aren’t in most places now. It’s also, incidentally, the kind of marriage I think people automatically think of (at least here) so almost all the advice has been tailored towards that kind of marriage.

But many relationships (and I dare to say even with most people who tried that kind of marriage in marriage #1’s second marriage) differ from that and like it or not spouses are somewhat independent.

Thats why I trust the OP’s judgement on whether to tell his wife or not. He knows far better than us whether it makes sense or not.

54

He has demonstrated a consistent lack of respect for sexual boundaries, and that is a huge red flag. Being a little deviant in the comfort of your own mind is fine, but knowingly transgressing boundaries (and perhaps even getting off on that transgression) is actually a very strong warning sign of a potential predator. This is beyond being a little kinky, and in the category of “this guy has a screw loose.”

I would no longer invite this man into my home. I’d socialize with him in group settings only. Your family does not need to become the sexual focus of a sicko.

55

Why in the world are you even considering not telling your wife? I kind of get the feeling that you’d prefer to retain the ability to invite the panty-masturbator guy back into your house if it seems like it’d be a larf.

Please do remove this temptation from yourself and tell your wife what happened. How would you like it if she kept inviting over her girlfriends who willfully menstruated on all of your dark brown ties? It’s not like you’ll be able to tell after it dries, right?

56

I thought of yet another highly unlikely potential semi-innocent explanation - he was looking for lingrie styles for his fiance and was just reading the labels.

Again I am totally not saying that that is what was going on. But I really think basic fairness means if you do do something you need to ask him what he was doing. I have thought of three very different explanations for what went on that are fairly innocuous, and the mere fact I can do that shows that you cannot be certain what happened here without hearing what he has to say. Especially when the stakes are (potentially) so high - from what you describe there actually is the potential of ruining this guy’s life.

57

There is no reasonable explanation for a male friend getting a pair of your wife’s dirty panties out of the hamper (or a clean pair out of the drawer). He was sitting there sniffing them and jacking off thinking about your wife.

If it was me, I would a) tell my wife, b) drop the friend and tell him why and that your wife knows, and c) any time his name came up, I’d tell the story about the time you caught him with your wife’s panties. The only person who has reason to be embarrassed is the guy who went rooting around in a hamper for a pair of dirty underwear at his friends house to jerk off with.

58

…and then I slipped in the shower and my asshole landed on a Mason jar and that’s how it got up there, Doc, I swear!*

Credible excuses aside, I can’t help but feel the OP’s wife deserves a share of the blame for not investing in and using a panty safe.

  • We also would have accepted: “Two guys in a health club, one’s putting on pantyhose. ‘Since when do you wear pantyhose?’ ‘Ever since my wife found them in the glove compartment!’ I love this crowd!”
59

Yeah, this. She’s the panties owner. What’s her feelings on the matter?

60

Great post, Linctus. I love hearing my marriage described as the “situation on the ground.” lol. Great post, for real though.

Well, I opened this up on my lunch break expecting a few responses, but Jesus Jumped Up Christ if this didn’t take on a life of its own since last night.

I really appreciate all the insight. I’ve been in, what I and many consider, a successful relationship for years and it has never crossed my mind to tell my wife every. single. thing. I get that it is her underwear that is causing the fuss, but I honestly see no reason to get her involved. She will be completely disgusted and really pissed off at him, not to mention that feeling of violation one gets from stuff like this. Why would I tell her?

He doesn’t come around, say, every weekend. If I confronted him and told him not to come over anymore it would take my wife 6 months for her to say, “How come Nick hasn’t been around lately?”

Either way, I’ll get back to this thread when I get some time. I truly do appreciate the advice and had no idea it would spark such a debate.