Homebrew, I do have to admit that I find your “experiment” a bit interesting, but Craneop2 and Forbin do have a valid point about your slant in conducting this “experiment” on your fellow co-workers. While it’s amusing on one level your fellow workers are not lab rats, and leaving issue oriented literature around to gauge a response probably has more potential downside for you professionally and inter-personally than benefit in terms of smoking out potential dates or homophobes.
OK, OK, wait. I must step in to this.
I’m an avid reader of The Advocate - I subscribe.
I’ve also left copies of it at work. Not on purpose, but because I was reading at lunch and forgot the magazine when I left the breakroom.
I’m afraid all of the folks here who have never actually READ the magazine have not a leg to stand on. Homebrew’s right - the thing is very much like Newsweek in the content and style of writing. It is a national news magazine and regularly wins journalism and magazine design awards. To compare it to a Watchtower publication or the like is just plain wrong.
Yes, the magazine contains some ads that could be considered somewhat “racey” or whatever - showing shirtless men enjoying themselves on a cruise ship or at the beach, etc. On the other hand, have you perused some of the ads in Sports Illustrated, Men’s Fitness, or Car & Driver lately???
I have no issue with Homebrew leaving the publication around on purpose. God forbid that someone actually reads it and maybe gets some positive and enlightening information about some part of the gay community - I mean THAT would be terrible, right?
At my workplace, we have two sets of bulletin boards - one reserved strictly for corporate information and announcements and another for personal items (ads, thank you cards, etc.) - the personal bulletin boards frequently contain some of the following:
An ad for a local Christian rock band’s weekend performance
A flyer for drawing classes taught by the wife of an employee
Directions to a keg party being held at one of the news editor’s houses this weekend
Ads for house cleaning and yard services
Ads for “car for sale”, “couch for sale”, “motorcycle for sale”
In addition, you can find pretty much all manner of magazines lying around - work related and non.
Personally, I think Homebrew is doing nothing harmful here.
:rolleyes:
For the obiously humour impaired, that’s what’s known as a joke.
Thanks, TV Guy. When did MPSIMS lose it’s levity?
Ideological dynamite? What the heck does that mean? I’ve seen copies of The Advocate and similar magazines in bookstores and such, and even looked through them a little, and nothing happened. I don’t see how a gay magazine in the breakroom is going to offend any rational person. It’s not being forced upon them or anything.
As far as experiments on people go, I have to say this is about as inoffensive as it gets. Someone leaves magazines in the breakroom to see if there’s any interest among his coworkers for the subject matter. Just because it deals with homosexuality doesn’t make it any more offensive than if I left VeloNews lying around my office to see if there are any other bikers (of course in my case it would be rather pointless). Then again, I wouldn’t find religious tracts offensive either. I’d just ignore them.
Update:
It was still here this morning, so it’s not the cleaning crew disposing it. But it disappeared sometime before 10 a.m. There are two trash cans in the breakroom and it was in neither, so someone is removing it from the breakroom, either for personal use, to give to someone or dispose of it elsewhere.
Hmmm
Forbin, I can see the analogy between sexual and religious identity materials, but Homebrew’s actions do not rise to the level of “hostile workplace conditions.”
For that, it must be one of these:
- Prostletyzing. Fails – The magazine isn’t intended to convert the non-believers. Jews for Jesus tracts, by comparison, are hostile/offensive on sight.
- Omnipresent. Fails – It’s one magazine. If Homebrew had thrown out all the other magazines and replaced them with the Advocate, he’d be making a hostile environment with the implicit judgement he is imposing, and is making the material unavoidable.
- Pornographic. Fails. If it’s no more offensive than a muscle-mag, I don’t see how people catching sight of the pictures would be reasonably offended.
As long as Homebrew doesn’t place copies of the advocate in the toilet stalls, it’s all trivial and fine.
Forbin, despite the number of words you’ve written in this thread, you’ve said very little of relevance about what Homebrew is doing. Ironically, though, you’ve communicated volumes about yourself.
Responses to these new posts, point by point is called for, and here, I’ll oblige:
1) With regard to the statements that claim The Advocate is no different whatsoever from Newsweek.
I disagree. The purpose of this thread belies that. Would Homebrew have claimed that he was going to conduct a fun little experiment, and then bored the reader with the details of how he brought Newsweek into the break room?
“Let’s just see if anyone will want to read this entirely ordinary magazine.” the imaginary OP seems to say.
I doubt it, and reasonable people will doubt it too.
The Advocate was chosen because of its content and advocacy of the homosexual perspective. If this is not the case, why then was it chosen?
That is why I say that bringing material like The Advocate into the workplace is wrong. It isn’t like Newsweek, or the topic wouldn’t be threadworthy.
The Advocate has an ideology, plain and simple. The OP describes a workplace wherein no mention of Homebrew’s sexuality has ever been made. This may be accidental, the result of naïveté, but as I also suggested, his coworkers may be discretely avoiding the topic.
He is not “Doing as the Romans do.” He is introducing literature which, judging from his own description of the workplace, is likely controversial.
*2)Astro has stated: and leaving issue oriented literature around to gauge a response probably has more potential downside for you professionally and inter-personally than benefit in terms of smoking out potential dates or homophobes.
*
I agree. Homebrew does run the risk of increased hostility form his coworkers. Artful harassment is astounding in its carefully crafted detail. Bullies well aquatinted with the system can make life Hell for Homebrew, while cautiously avoiding breaking any real rules. Additionally, the management often acts with benign neglect in such cases. Homebrew’s desire to bring The Advocate to work, and place it in the break room may lead to such a turn of events. In my workplace it most definitely would on both counts.* Despite the fact that many here claim to see nothing offensive whatsoever in The Advocate, many people will, and Homebrew’s description of his workplace is consistent with this operating theory.
Is the magazine being thrown away?
I surmise that it is.
Why?
I think it’s likely someone is acting on the very feelings I described above. Somebody is angered or offended by the magazine.
While I don’t necessarily agree with that, I accept that this type of thing will occur. I wouldn’t want The Advocate in my break room. It would only cause trouble, and that’s why I wouldn’t bring it.
(*I’ve been there, done that. Being bullied in the workplace is no fun at all. Nobody will help you Homebrew, and spending time in the workplace can be far worse than the frustration of not knowing what your coworkers think about your sexuality. If you pursue your present strategy you may find out how bad it can get. For your sake, I hope you don’t.)
3) waterj2 has scoffed at my use of the phrase “intellectual dynamite”.
Did you scoff waterj2?
It looks that way from here.
You’re a very intelligent guy, and I think you know very well what the phrase means, and why I’m applying it here.
The OP describes a place in which, “there aren’t many openly gay people at work. Okay, there are none, except perhaps for me”, and, "nobody has actually asked me if I’m gay, and I’ve not volunteered any info because I’m not certain of the reaction the company would take. "
In such an environment, a frankly gay perspective on the events of the world is potentially explosive.
Homebrew’s coworkers, not the members of the SDMB, are judging the presence of the magazine in the break room. Enlightened and progressive views embraced here do not seem to be the mode employed there. The magazine is disappearing too. I’ve already stated my guess as to why that is. That is what makes it dynamite.
- 4)Cervaise states: you’ve said very little of relevance about what Homebrew is doing. *
I very much disagree with that comment. I have stayed on topic throughout.
*5) Cervaise again states: Ironically, though, you’ve communicated volumes about yourself. *
I think not. What are you claiming to know about me, aside from my views on this specific subject, as a result of my remarks?
Again, the nature of a message board debate hinders communication here. Perhaps you’re not intending to be as insulting as I think you are, but from my read it appears you’re accusing me of intolerance or bigotry.
What volumes did my words communicate?
You’ve said little, but disapproved much, or have I misinterpreted you?
Once again I will state my views, simply, and without prejudice.
I believe Homebrew is making a mistake bringing magazines like The Advocate to work and placing them in the break room. From his descriptions of the workplace I believe they will only stir up trouble. I further stated that even views that were consistent with my own would be inappropriate. I encourage people to avoid stirring up trouble or contention in the workplace.
Here I will detail what I did not say.
I did not express hatred for Homebrew.
I did not use foul language or expletives to describe him.
I did not express disapproval for the gay community.
I did not detail (as I have done in this post) why I think this action may be bad for Homebrew himself. In that I have been remiss. If the morale of the workplace is lowered because of his actions, you can be damn sure he will bear the brunt of it.
Many workplaces are poor places to bring this type of material. I think Homebrew described one when he described his own.
No workplace is a good place to experiment with one’s coworkers.
A little levity here, to oblige Homebrews lament re: MPSIMS.
How in the Hell do prolific posters do it?
Good God Almighty, this took a loooong time. I can’t do this sort of thing too much, I simply don’t have the time.
And I don’t type fast.
I hope this (last) post satisfies my detractors.
Don’t assume I’m some kind of bigot, because I’m not. This discussion is about conduct in the workplace.
So, your problem is not with the Advocate per se, but with Homebrew’s admitted little workplace experiment? Do we not do this all the time? What about throwing a party and inviting people. Asking somebody out? Having lunch?
These all might qualify as Workplace Experimentation, if we consider all non-work social interaction as equally forbidden.
Homebrew does indeed run his own risk, but I think he’ll be fine. At least he didn’t lick the doorknobs like a certain advice columnist. 
As for the prolific posters, I share your disbelief. I feel like I post like a banshee, and I’m up to 1 post per day?! How the hell Esprix has 10+ is beyond me!
I feel like I
…didn’t preview
Rather than continue the hijack over whether the Advocate is offensive, I’ve started a new thread in Great Debates.
I’m nothing if not persistent. Since yesterday’s mag disappeared, I brought a back issue this morning. I hope someone is taking them to enjoy and not discarding them. I starting to doubt they are being disposed of since I looked (no I didn’t dig through, they’re open and were nearly empty) the breakroom trash cans yesterday after it’s disappearance and it wasn’t in them. Would someone bother to remove it from the breakroom to discard it?
Wow, Forbin, that’s a wonderful rationalization of forced closeting.
Homebrew, if I’m not mistaken, you’re trying to judge just how accepting your environment is, right? How dangerous it would be for you to be more open about your sexuality?
It’s a process gay people go through continually, Forbin. Whenever we get to a new job, or meet a new group of people, we’re faced with the inevitable struggle to figure out how honest we can be about who we really are. Do we use the subtle, non-gender-specific personal pronouns when describing our significant others, or not refer to them at all, or just talk about them? Do we admit which club we went to last night, or do we just say we went clubbing, or do we say we just watched TV?
Sometimes it’s hard to judge what kind of crowd you’re in; some situations where I would have expected intolerance, I’ve met with acceptance. Some people who I’d expect to know better have turned out to be ignorant bigots.
Coming out in the workplace is a big, big deal. Homebrew is trying to get a gague of how best to approach it, and is doing so in a subtle, and inoffensive, and funny way.
Can you suggest a better approach?
Or would you think that it’s better for gay people to never mention their partners, or their personal lives? Should I not have a picture of my boyfriend on my desk? Should I never mention what my boyfriend and I did last night?
Sheesh.
It’s gone again. I’ll have to wait until the next issue.
You’re right - The Advocate obvious belies some kind of propogandist agenda.
I will hereby demand that all heterosexually-oriented magazines (which would be, I suspect, all of them) also be removed from the workplace immediately.
Try to shove your sex life down my throat, will you? Bastards!
Esprix
You’re right - The Advocate obvious belies some kind of propogandist agenda.
I will hereby demand that all heterosexually-oriented magazines (which would be, I suspect, all of them) also be removed from the workplace immediately.
Try to shove your sex life down my throat, will you? Bastards!
Esprix
(Oh, sure - “trust the hamsters,” they say. THEY LIE!)
I can’t say I agree with all of Forbin’s arguments (that’s because I didn’t read them all - his posts are far longer than my attention span), and if The Advocate is as tame as it has been portrayed here, it certainly is not inappropriate for a workplace breakroom. Having said that, the idea of “experimenting” on one’s co-workers is reminiscent of when we kids used to jam sticks into anthills. It implies that your co-workers are some sort of uniform undifferentiated mass of protoplasm the requires periodic stirring up. Maybe I’m reaching here, but to me the idea of leaving bait for people and then secretly observing their reactions seems disrespectful.
Give us some more detail on these folks. What are they like? What are you hoping to learn about them? That some of them will be curious about a culture different than their own? Of course they will. That some may be offended or prudish and discard your newspaper? Of course that will happen too. My guess is that most of them realize it’s a set-up and are wondering who the perpetrator is (unless they’ve already seen you digging through those trash cans…)
As Forbin and I have have stated…The workplace IS NOT A PROPER PLACE to play games!!PERIOD!!
That is all we I think are both saying!! If you wanna play games do it it home…Or in the clubs.
BTW I DID read a copy of the advocate and found it kinda interesting but DEFINATELY slanted.
To compare it to Newsweek is a travesty…(sorry My opinion…)
Well, duh - it’s a gay news magazine.
Quick clue for you - lots of themed magazines are “slanted.” They’re still welcome in your average workplace. Get over it.
Esprix
I think Newsweek is pretty slanted. Not as bad as, say, U.S. News and World Report, but there’s a definite agenda there.
Even if I weren’t already familiar with The Advocate and even if I weren’t already pretty sympathetic to “gay issues” (or, as I call them, “human rights issues”), I’d be so freakin’ relieved to see something other than the insipid mass-market magazines usually found in a breakroom that I might just…well, borrow an issue if I found one there.