A group not protesting an atrocity = endorsing said atrocity?

Or something like that.

I have a family relation who loves to jump at every opportunity to attack Muslims, and his favourite criticism is that, for example, after the Paris shootings yesterday, or after the beheading of Fusillier Lee Rigby in London in 2013, he never sees large groups of Muslims joining together and loudly and vocally protesting and condemning the attacks. Therefore (his argument is), they all (or nearly all) accept, even approve of the atrocities, and so they’re all just as bad.

I don’t find it persuasive but I find it difficult to articulate and/or provide examples or counterexamples. My thoughts are going on the lines of this:

  1. I don’t see (for example) major news coverage of Israelis condemning whenever a Palestinian child or unarmed person is killed (but then, that could just be me not spotting it), or other such examples

  2. many Muslims don’t live in free countries, therefore don’t have the freedom to speak out, or assemble, in a way that wouldn’t get them killed. Similarly, those that live in the West, immediately after such attacks, are probably pretty scared and so don’t feel like sticking their heads above the parapet, even if it’s in sympathy

  3. people are just people, and don’t think collectively all that much, and are just living and working from day to day. The notion of gathering together to protest such atrocities doesn’t occur unless you are already vested into a specific cause or campaign.

Do these make sense, or am I barking up the wrong tree? I find it wrong to use such a cheap shot as this to condemn Muslims, the majority of which I think are perfectly decent people living in quiet desperation like the rest of us - they aren’t performing monkeys that we should expect to ‘perform’ for us whenever we expect them to pay tribute and penance for the crimes of their demented poor relations.

Would be interested to hear your views.

Ask him if he’s ever seen anyone protesting Jimmy Saville. Then ask him if that means everyone in Britain endorse sex offenses against children.

It’s a bit tangential, but I think the OP is bearing the notion that “Muslims” are a homogenous, cohesive group like “Christians” or “Jews” or even “Liberals” - some card-carrying organization with a head office and a PR spokesbeing.

Muslim groups are plentiful and each has its own voice. They just aren’t heard any more often or above the din than, say, the largest Episcopal church in Topeka, or the most respected temple in Boise.

The nominally Islamic equivalents of Westboro Baptist Church tend to get national headline news, though, and for much the same reasons.

INTERVIEW WITH A MUSLIM

How old is this family relation? That type of black-and-white thinking is common amongst small children, but an adult of even marginally average intelligence should be able to see the inherent flaw of that argument. Tell him that (I’m sure it will go over well! ;))

After an attack by Al Qaeda, I never see large groups of Als joining together and loudly and vocally protesting and condemning the attacks. Therefore, Al Roker, Al Pacino, Al Sharpton, and Weird Al Yankovic must approve of the atrocities, so they’re all just as bad.

Ask him how many atrocities of his in group he’s protested.

That may be so, but the same argument made by the OP’s relation is made by posters on this board in nearly every thread where the subject of Islamic miltants comes up.

It could simply mean that they were too busy protesting the child sex slave trade or something. People pick and chose their battles, most likely the ones that hit closest to their home and family in life and no one can protest every atrocity.

So no, in no way does not protesting a atrocity equate to supporting it.

Supporting the atrocity is supporting it. I believe this was shown after 9-11, several muslem communities celebrating. Now that would be a example that moslems are capable and willing to support atrocities directly, and as such, in the sense of the OPs family relation argument, one would have to conclude if Muslims want to support the atrocity they would be celebrating it. Lack of the celebration indicates there is no support for it.

Of course, that’s because he’s refusing to pay attention to the fact that large groups of Muslims did in fact condemn the shootings. Including such obscure groups of Muslims as Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

What if somebody is protesting a particular atrocity? Do you take it to mean they approve of all the other atrocities in the world?

Do you have links? I’d love to show him.

It’s not an uncommon arguing point from all sides of the political spectrum when dealing with the latest “big bad” or Outrage of the Day. It’s not just avoiding shades of grey in asumptions. It’s bad logic. It’s afalse dilemma. I’m not sure that will help more than giving him an example though.

The Independent has touched on the same subject: Link

That’s a dead-end to show him such articles. He’ll just say that there weren’t enough protesters there, or that they were not sincere, etc.

Just ask him why he supports rape. If he says he doesn’t, ask him when the last time was that he went to an anti-rape protest. If he’s actually been to one, say that it doesn’t count because you didn’t hear about it, there were too few people there, and it was too long ago.

Then say you will not associate yourself with supporters of rape, and stop talking to him.

Or, you could just jump to the last step and stop talking with him.

I think he’s referring to the governments of those countries rather than mass demonstrations. See here, for example:

I personally don’t feel a pressing need to distance myself from opinions I do not hold or actions I didn’t take. Do you, OP ?

The OP specifically noted that he doesn’t think other Muslims should have to apologize for anything. So apparently he does feel such a need.

Agree with this. I would be pissed too if people were expecting me to make my disaproval known loudly every time someone from some group I belong too was doing something wrong. Being a contrarian and prideful, I’d probably make a point of not making such statements if I were a Muslim.

Yeah, I’m a straight white male, a group responsible for a huge of the horrible shit that has happened in history. If I were to apologize every time someone in my group did something horrible, I’d never get anything done.