Re/ SDStaff Ken’s excellent report http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbachelor.html
As “Ceux-là du souffle du canard” bade us remember about Dr. Science,
So, where did the usage of “bachelor” to mean unmarried come from?
Isaac Asimov once commented that, to get a Doctorate in anything other than medicine, you had to do original research. To become a Doctor of Medicine, all you had to do was make it through the school. So Isaac thought that a PhD was a real degree, while an MD was a glorified Bachelor’s degree.
Judging from period literature I’ve read, “bachelor” went through a period, ca. 1800, of meaning “graduate student”. I’d guess that “unmarried man” stemmed from that.
hijack/
JWK – not that this has anything to do with this thread, but what does that quote from Charles Williams mean?
/hijack
In one of Williams’ novels, Descent Into Hell, he tells of a poet who, asked for an explanation of his latest poem, could succeed only in reciting it over again, because that was the only way of explaining it. Since Williams later used the name of that fictional poet as a pseudonym, I think we are safe in assuming that the poet is himself.
Hie thee to Alibris and find a copy of Taliessin Through Logres. (And, because it is a difficult work, Arthurian Torso, which is largely a commentary on Taliessin Through Logres and its companion, The Region of the Summer Stars).
Thanks. I’ll add those books to the list (although I’m not sure if they are good train reading).
Actually, all Doctors hold the title of PHD. PHD derives from Philosophy. Philosophical Doctorate: to teach ones philosophy. The title of Doctor has been around far longer than the practice of medicine.
smaszk said:
I’m afraid I’m going to need a cite for that one. How can you say that medicine is predated by a title with latin roots? Are you using the word “medicine” in some normative sense that would exclude, say, pre-Scientific medicine attempts at tending to patients?
smaszk also said:
And again, I’d ask for a cite on that one, too. What about those with Doctorates in Law or Divinity? Assuredly law schools do not confer PhD’s on their graduates. And while the term “doctor” may have originally implied competency to teach a given subject, today, it refers to the highest degree of competency in that subject. Or are you using the word “doctor” in a special way that excludes linguistic drift?
False. A) It’s “PhD”, not “PHD”. B) And all Doctors are not PhD’s.
True. Note, however, that “philosophy” covers what we would today call “science”, as well as those metaphysical subjects usually classed as “philosophy” today.
False. However, I believe “Doctor” has been around longer than “Medical Doctor” or “Doctor of Medicin”.
John W. Kennedy, originally, the word “doctor” did mean something along the lines of “teacher of philosophy.” (I’d cite to the OED online, but you have to be a subscriber to view the link.) It’s a really old word. The OED quotes usages of the word in that respect – and referring to Sts. Ambrose, Augustine, Jerome, and Gregory – dating from 1303. The earliest usage the OED identifies of the word “doctor” denoting a person who has had a degree conferred upon them is from three-quarters of a century later (1377). The OED dates the first use of the word “doctor” to refer to a medical doctor to the same year (1377). Interestingly, the OED lists the same date for the usage of “doctor” to refer to someone proficient in the law. OK – so all these are from the same source… whaddya want me to do?
Another site (http://www.etymonline.com/d5etym.htm) gives the etymology of “doctor” as follows:
Alright. I’m getting a little too tired to track down the overlap between “medicine” and “philosophy” in contemporaneous usage.
Also false. Some doctors do, in fact, have PhDs.
But not most. MD-PhD’s (or “Mudd-fudds” as they are known) are a minority of doctors of medicine, and are usually not found in general clinical practice. They are mostly involved in medical research programs, perhaps with clinical trials or drug development.
Ok, well first off Philosophy, and the ‘PhD’ are Greek not Latin. The ‘PhD’ has been around since Aristotle. If you don’t have a ‘PhD’ you are not a Doctor. Just because you use a word incorrectly does not make it fact. To hold the title Doctor you must have a Doctorate degree. Anyone without an official, not Honorary, ‘PhD’ can not be called a Doctor. Anyone that has an Official ‘PhD’ is a ‘Doctor’ regardless of profession. Language use is not an excuse for using a title incorrectly. Don’t give me any comment on your Medical ‘Doctor’ theory. You are just using the title incorrectly and so is he/she.
So how DO you address your healthcare provider – “Sawbones”?
“Philosophy” is Greek, but “doctor” is Latin, the modern sense of the word “doctor” extends only back to the middle ages, and “MD”, “LLD”, “ThD” and others are genuine degrees awarded by genuine universities.
So, if it walks like a doctor, and quacks like a doctor, it’s a doctor?
Or is it whether it doctors like a quack?
Now I’m all confused again …
I like Cecil’s version of ‘You can always tell…but you can’t tell him much’. I find this is true of all engineers. Here in Cambridge we say ‘You can always tell a Girton girl but you can’t tell her much’. we also say ‘You can always tell a Girton girl. She eats her banana sideways so as not to offend the Warden’. The Warden is the lady chief of Girton College.
John W. Kennedy said:
psychonaut responded:
John’s wording is ambiguous. Does he mean “Not all doctors are PhD’s,” or “No doctors are PhD’s”?
You seem to think he said the latter, but I’m pretty sure he meant the former.
Quite right. As a student of Loglan, I am thoroughly ashamed.