My daughter plays the clarinet and looks forward to joining the jazz band in high school next year. The director of her junior high band has no place for clarinetists and says the the high school doesn’t, either. Not “no room” but they just don’t use clarinets.
WTF? There was a time when every band on the planet had a clarinet to provide the upper register. What were Benny Goodman and Sidney Bechet, saxaphone wannbes?
I’ve never heard such nonsense. I’m assuming it’s not true about the high school band (just the middle school guy blowing smoke) but I intend to talk to the leader if it is.
I’ve never seen a high school jazz band with a clarinet. (I played tenor in one) They’re usually set up along the lines of a “classic” big band - front line of saxophones, second row of trombones, and top row of trumpets. There’s usually a keyboardist, drummer, guitar, and bassist as well. Most big bands did not have clarinets in them, Benny Goodman was an aberration…
It was my experience that not every Jazz pieces written for middle/high schools don’t have that many clarinet parts; all the clarinet parts in the songs we played were written by the director and the clarinet player working together.
For us, Clarinets were only used for specific Jazz solos, the rest of the time the clarinetist played Alto Sax.
As for providing the upper register…which upper register? Alto saxes, Trumpets, and Guitar can all play rather high notes…when I played Maynard Fergusen’s Manteca in high school I had to play nearly every note in the song in the upper octaves (admittedly not as high pitched as flutes or piccolos, or even alto sax, but still damned high up there)
Yeah, the director’s pretty much correct. If your daughter wants to be in the jazz band, she’s going to have to learn alto sax. Most junior and high school arrangements simply don’t have any clarinet parts - and usually there’s a saxophonist who can double as a clarinetist in the band so they have it covered in the event they do need one.
Speaking as a clarinetist who had to learn alto sax to play in the jazz band, I agree completely. Then again, I only learned clarinet in the first place because the band didn’t take violins, so at that point I was rather used to the phenomenon.
First off, I’m reasonably sure it’s a Gillespie tune and Ferguson just covered it.
The title most likely derives from the Spanish word for lard, but it’s not about lard. I’m just guessing given the propensity for other jazz folks around the same time to name songs not after what they are about or after a hook, but words that evoke how the song should sound - if you get what I’m trying to say here. Gillespie was probably trying to tie together the characteristics of lard (smooth, slick, thick, whatever) and the characateristics he thought the song had. And he used the Spanish word because it sounds cooler than “lard.”
I’ve looked at lists I have of big-band personnel, and, with the exceptions of Buster Bailey (Fletcher Henderson), Barney Bigard (Duke Ellington) and Danny Polo (Claude Thornhill), the only times that a big band ever employed a clarinetist who didn’t double on at least one saxophone was when said clarinetist was the leader (Goodman, Shaw).
Ergo, it’s not shocking that they’ll need your daughter to double on another instrument.
Yeah, everyone else is pretty much correct. I played sax in school jazz bands in middle school, high school, and college, and I wouldn’t lie to ya. True “big bands” don’t have a regular clarinet player, and if they do, it is either a sax player picking up a clarinet to solo with, or a featured bandleader, like Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw. (Sidney Bechet preceded the glory days of the big bands in the '30s and '40s, and was playing a different subgenre of jazz than big band swing–plus he doubled on soprano sax.)
tremorviolet is correct in that most big bands have five saxes (two altos, two tenors, and a baritone), four trombones behind them, four trumpets behind them, and a rhythm section with drums, bass (preferably upright), piano, and guitar. Now dropzone, if your daughter could learn sax between now and then, the fact that she is already a strong clarinet player would be a powerful selling point for her to get into the jazz band.
It’s been said before but where Jazz is concerned there just isn’t a whole lot written for the clarinet, especially where Jazz ensembles are concerned. In fact, outside of concert/millitary band and orchestral situations there isn’t a whole lot written for clarinet at all. You’ll find that very few clarinetists are strictly clarinetists for that reason. If you don’t play “legit” you can’t really count on getting work unless you double, triple, or more.
In may ways he’s teaching your daughter a valuable lesson about the job market for musicians.
Sorry dropzone, but as a student currently in a high school jazz band (I’m a trumpet player) , I can again confirm that clarinets just aren’t that common. My advice to her is to learn to play sax, since it’s the most natural transition.
To possibly aid her at the audition, I would reccomend learning to play the less common bari sax (Soprano saxophones are really only used for solos). It’s not that uncommon for people to switch instruments for jazz band. My band has a flute player on bari sax and a baritone player on bass trombone.
In middle school, I was initially rejected from the jazz band because “those playing stringed instruments should be in the orchestra.” I had no idea that guitars had no place in jazz.
My parents argued, I got in, and it was terrible.
Instructor: No, F sharp major. F SHARP MAJOR!!
Me: I don’t know that chord.
Instructor: …
Me: …
Instructor: …
Me: (cough)
Instructor: Okay, well, that’s your lesson for today. Practice tonight, learn F sharp major, and come back next week. Rehersal is at 3 pm today.
I bet the orchestra teacher knew how to play guitar.
Hmmmm, I guess that explains why school Jazz bands tend to suck. I always thought it was because they were all Big Band wannabes and that’s correct. Now somebody can explain to me how Big Band is Jazz and not brassy, overblown Pop with absolutely no room for improvisation.
Because it’s the easiest way to give them a taste of playing a different style of music without all of the frustation of learning (not to mention teaching) the fine art of improvisation. Depending on the director and his repertoire choices there will still be plenty of room for it(as with the semi-pro groups I play with), but it won’t be near be-bop or any of the “purer” jazz forms.
Dropzone, the same situation happened to me. My daughter plays the clarinet but could not join the Middle School Jazz Band. I was dumbfounded and went to talk with the instructor. When bringing up Benny Goodman, I received the same general response as brought up in the above posts: “Benny Goodman was a great bandleader who happened to play clarinet, but jazz has evolved.”
My follow up question: How can you explain the fact that the award given to your most outstanding jazz musician is the “Benny Goodman Award”?
Him: Ummm… Benny Goodman was a great bandleader who happened to play clarinet, but jazz has evovled.
Have we had a conversation about this before? Hmmmmm, I THOUGHT we had had a conversation about this before…
Okay, I think that when you say “big band,” you are envisioning lily-white dance orchestras like Glenn Miller’s.
When I think of “big bands,” I see Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Jimmie Lunceford, Charlie Barnet, Gene Krupa, Benny Goodman, Gerry Mulligan, Gil Evans. All of whom used the large-group format to add heft and power and drive to the nimble jazz of small groups.
Ellington’s bands from the 1920s to the 1970s employed some of the great improvisors of jazz history: Johnny Hodges, Ben Webster, Clark Terry. Basie featured Lester Young and Buck Clayton and Dickie Wells and dozens of others. All of the above named bandleaders set great store by hot improvisation, backed up by powerhouse rhythm sections and swinging harmonics from the other horns.
If we have, Ike, the discussion didn’t stick or you’d know IT AIN’T JAZZ IF IT’S WRITTEN DOWN! Big Band music is mostly insipid Pop. The better stuff like Ellington is Light Classical with a beat. Goodman and Krupa were okay in a combo, once I got past the fact that it was really a Klezmer band*, but the Big Band stuff was almost as bad as Glen Miller’s.
“Heft” is for big rooms. Jazz isn’t for big rooms because you lose the intimacy. It’s for small, smokey rooms where you can get some booze and some smack and hookers are encouraged because they bring in customers. Meaning not any high school around here. Not even the Catholic ones.
I’m a purist. I have trouble accepting White guys as Jazz musicians, though it helps if they are junkies.** And Jews. A Jewish junkie almost equals one tee-totaling Black guy.***
Hmmmmm, have I offended everybody yet? No, because there are still the European Jazz guys! What an embarassment! Not a good one among them. (Django doesn’t count because he was Roma)****
Gee, I love Klezmer!
** - That same daughter accuses me of having been o small-“d”-doper because of the Psychedelia I listen to. Wait 'til she learns more about Jazzbos!
*** - Is that what is called “digging a deeper hole for myself?”
**** - Have you gotten the impression that I so dislike Big Band Jazz that I’ll spray venom indiscriminately while discriminating against just about everybody and everything?
By “Big Band”, are you thinking of swing, or merely of large bands? The later Woody Herman, Billy Eckstine (as a bandleader, not as a singer), Boyd Raeburn during the mid-40’s, Dizzy Gillespie, Claude Thornhill, Elliot Lawrence, and Stan Kenton all led large-scale bands, and none of them played swing.
Does anyone know where the complete list of members of the Downbeat Jazz Hall of Fame can be fund on the Web? Quite a few of its’ member are non-Jewish whites.
What did Stephane Grappelli do wrong?
Finally, with the “It ain’t jazz if it’s written down” comment: Written jazz has been in existence since at least Jelly Roll Morton.
“Big” is not just Swing. (Okay, the local college station I pick up on my fillings plays large-scale “Jazz” all day and since I can’t stand it to begin with and find everything they play totally insipid I’m real prejudiced against it.)
Downbeat long ago sold its soul. It’s list is almost as lame as Playboy’s.
Didn’t you hear? Jazz can’t be played on a violin, either. Trumpet, piano, drums, bass, or saxophone only. (Jeeze, I love Grappelli, too! Ya know, I should break down and buy some.)
What can I say to counter this? Guess there’s nothing except the debate killer: Jelly’s the exception that proves the rule.
