Excellent work trublmaker! I didn’t read this thread until this morning and was cheering along with the “Call CPS now!” contingent. Thanks for being such a kind and responsible neighbor.
GT
Too bad the children are five times more likely to be physically/sexually abused or killed in foster care.
“FIGHTING IGNORANCE SINCE 1973”? More like promoting it. Try looking into what CPS really does. They violate more rights than they do good.
This lady observed from an outside prospective what she believes is child abuse. One thing she is forgetting is that she is not in that house and cannot say for sure what is going on in there. I commend her for her concern, however, she may have placed those children in more danger than they are in with the mother. I know of children who have died or suffered mortal wounds by the hands of their foster parents. I have known foster parents (I grew up with foster kids) who abused their foster children. I know of a lady who had a child taken away because of a false allegation and that child’s foster parents tried to gouge out his eyes with forks. He is now left blind in one eye and needs reconstructive surgery.
If you want to truly fight ignorance you need to KNOW all sides. Never assume, never pass judgement, never base things on oppinion. What this lady “believes” to be abuse may not legally count as abuse. Unfortunately CPS won’t care. They will simply scare her into a case plan that will take up to 2 years to complete. In the meantime her children will be up for adoption in a year and a half. She will lose all parental rights. Her children will grow up traumatized from being ripped from their home, school, friends and siblings. They will have no identity. And all parties involved will have ruined lives.
This isn’t oppinion, this is fact based on statistics and first hand accounts. I’m not bashing anyone, just asking that before another call is made try to see all sides of the issue.
Take it to the Pit and try to bring facts and leave your baggage behind.
It is not his responsibility to investigate and make absolutely sure there is abuse before calling CPS. It is up to CPS to determine what is going on. If you have a problem with the way CPS is run, that’s one thing, but that does not mean no one should ever report a problem when they see it. Certainly there are problems in the foster care system but sitting back and doing nothing is not the answer. Children are “more likely” to be abused in foster care? Well if they are in an abusive home now then they have a %100 chance of abuse, don’t they!
I’ve seen this lady put her kids out on the metal steps at night in the cold wearing nothing but t-shirts and shorts as punishment. Telling them, as they’re sitting there shivering and crying “Well, it’s your own fault.” Yes, it’s Tucson, but in the winter it gets into the 20’s and 30’s at night.
I’ve heard her screaming profanities at them. I’ve witnessed her being gone from the house for up to 30 minutes, leaving a 7 year-old in charge of three smaller children. I’ve had them knock on MY door to ask me if I knew where their mother was. I’ve heard her beating them- if you heard it, you’d know there’s no mistaking that sound. I’ve seen and heard them running around at 11 or 12 o’clock at night with no supervision.
You can’t tell me there’s ANY question of abuse. I’ve seen and heard it.
Leaving little children alone in itself could get them killed. Locking them out in the cold, beating them and cursing them makes it that much worse. Calling CPS is the right thing to do, and if your neighbors have seen the same things maybe you could call CPS together. Moreover, it’s a mistake to think that the kids will automatically be grabbed and put up for adoption. In fact, some of the most heavily publicized examples of abuse that I’ve read about involve authorities *returning * children to unfit parents. If the kids are taken away from their apparently deranged mother–which itself isn’t a sure thing–it’s very likely that they would be sent to live with other relatives. If anything, states put kids into foster care only as a last resort because they have to pay for it. If they can send the kids to grandma or Aunt Mary it’s cheaper. Don’t hesitate to make that call.
This thread is better suited for The BBQ Pit. I’ll move it for you.
Cajun Man
for the SDMB
Really? That’s a very um, “interesting” site. :dubious:
There was a little girl here in Pittsburgh who was recently starved to death by her moronic “real parents”. She was taken away from her doting foster mother who wanted to adopt her. She had a medical condition that needed constant monitoring. She went back to her parents, AGAINST the reccomendations of her foster mother, and now she’s dead.
For every case of foster parent abuse, I could find one of biological parent abuse, shithead.
trublmakr, you rock, and don’t let anyone ever tell you different. That kind of neglect and abuse I can’t even begin to comprehend. I’m off to hug Little Case until he squeals and escapes.
[QUOTE=trublmakr]
The only reason I hesitated was because in this state, you have to leave your name. And if they really press it, CPS has to tell the person that was called on who called on them. /QUOTE]
Wait a doggone minute.
I thought you were guaranteed confidentiality when you called CPS or DCF or whatever it’s called in your state? Is that not true in Arizona? It’s true here in Florida.
“Tell me who called.”
“No.”
“Please? Pretty please?”
“Okay, it was trublmakr.”
Not that CPS/DCF doesn’t have its problems (there’s a current case here in Orlando(ish) that will make you want to punch someone) but confidentiality should be an automatic. Otherwise the accused would know who reported them, and they could try to exact revenge.
I know that here in Lancaster County, PA, all calls to Children & Youth Services are considered confidential. They cannot and will not tell the parents who referred them. A CPS that will release that information to parents who very well may be thinking retribution needs to examine their best practices because it seems like it would definitely dampen anyone’s desire to do the right thing.
And don’t forget Tausha Lanham, who was starved to death by mother and boyfriend while her father and her paternal grandmother pleaded with CYS to do something about the situation.
When she died at age 7, Tausha Lanham weighed 11 pounds. Her mother was convicted of murder and has been sentenced to death.
Hopefully CPS in the OP’s situation will be much more effective than they were in Washington County.
Wow, that’s surprising. Most states don’t release that information. They will obtain your name, but they don’t release it. At any rate, thank you for calling. You are awesome!
Donar, I fail to see any real research on the site you linked to regarding the culpability of CPS in child death. CPS caseworkers have the hardest job I can imagine. People bash them for doing too much or too little. They’re by and large understaffed, under-funded, overworked, and underpaid. The only press they get is bad press–you never see the success story on the front page, just the stories about how CPS is ineffective. That’s sad because I know plenty of children who’ve been helped by a CPS worker–kids who weren’t lost by the system. CPS caseworkers do an incredibly valuable and important service, but they’re pretty much treated like crap. Most of them really care about what they do and are trying as hard as they can to make a difference even though they frequently get bogged down by policy and bureaucracy. As far as I’m concerned CPS workers (and for that matter anyone who protects people who can’t protect themselves) are my heroes.
Let me start this response by saying I know nothing about CPS other than what I hear on the news. I would, in fact, like to learn more - does anyone have any web sites with actual information, especially on how to learn what CPS policies are and who is responsible for oversight?
On to my anecdote:
Five years ago my husband and I had a roommate, a good friend, who was a single mother. When the baby was three months old or so, she took him to the ER because of a fever. While there, someone reported her to CPS. She was told this was because of two things:
- He was underweight - in reality a typo had him listed as two months older than he really was.
- He had a bruise on his bottom - in reality a birthmark.
She explained this to the case worker who contacted her, but it apparently did not help. They sent a “nurse” out to inspect her home. The first visit, the nurse told her “Strike One”. Because there was a roasting pan soaking in the kitchen. The second visit was “Strike Two”. Because her unmade bed was a strangulation risk.
After Strike Two, my friend simply stopped answering her phone. Eventually they stopped calling.
She was never given any written instructions, reports, or expectations, as far as I know. She didn’t have any idea what might occur if there ever was a Strike Three. I did some research on the internet, but was not able to find any standards, appeals process, or anything.
I’m glad nothing ever came of it, but the incident definitely made me nervous of calling on such a powerful, yet faceless, organization.
This is not to say that **trublmakr ** shouldn’t have called CPS in this situation. From what s/he says, it sounds like exactly the right thing to do. I just don’t think it’s what should be done in every situation.
[QUOTE=ivylass]
Can’t speak for other places, but in NY (where i was a CPS worker) the names of reporters were kept confidential. Sometimes the parents could figure out who made the report- it 's pretty obvious if the report is that a newborn tested positive for drugs, or if the mother asked someone to babysit for an hour 3 days ago and never returned. But we didn’t tell them- unless of course, the reporter became a witness at a hearing. Theoretically possible that a neighbor sould be a witness, but I never saw it happen.
As far as who oversees child protection agencies, I believe each state has a statewide agency that oversees the local CPS agenies and sets the standards. The ones I’ve heard of have included “social services”, “youth and family services”, or “children’s services in their names”.
BTW, one of the first things I was taught as a caseworkers was that there is a particular birthmark at the base of the spine, most commonly found in non-caucasians, that is easily mistaken for a bruise. I never heard of an unmade bed being considered a strangulation risk, and no one cared if there were dishes in the sink as long. I suspect the caseworker referred your roomate to a visiting nurse service and she just ended up with a whack job of a nurse.
I can’t speak for every state, but information on Texas CPS is available at:
Each state is run a little differently, although there are federal guidelines they have to follow. You can probably access CPS in your home state though the official state government website. Texas CPS clients can request a administrative review of their case if they feel they have been dealt with unprofessionally or unfairly. I can’t believe that CPS worker spoke to your friend that way. That’s terrible. “Strike 1” indeed. I can understand how that would make you wary of utilizing a government protective agency. I don’t see how an unmade bed or a roasting pan soaking in the kitchen could possibly equate to unfit parenting. I’m sorry your friend had that experience.
A few weeks ago, someone on this board pointed out that CPS does not “take kids away”. All they can do is present a case to a judge, who then makes the decision, about placement or supervision or whatever.
trublmakr, I had a friend I went to school with who was removed from an abusive home due to a neighbor calling CPS. She had no idea which person (or people) in her building made the call, but she feels very strongly that they saved her life. You’re doing a good thing.
Thanks, Obsidian, and everyone for your support. It’s really hard to witness things like this, and it’s also hard to call the cops or CPS on your neighbors. I feel for her, in a way. I know what it’s like to be a single parent and to get frustrated and overwhelmed. I can’t say I exactly understand how someone could abuse a child, but I did try to walk in her shoes.
And like I said, I did observe to her that I had an inkling of what was going on and offered my help. I so badly wanted to sing out in my loudest voice “You’re a stupid slutty whore who beats her kids! You’re going to jail, biatch! Why I oughta just beat YOUR ass right now so you see how it feels!” Instead, I clenched my jaw and made two fists and looked her right in the eye and offered my empathy and assistance. Hmmm, I thought, when it was over, “That’s not the trublmakr I know and love, maybe I’m maturing?” Anyway, it’s been an emotional experience for me and also a learning one.
Things have been VERY quiet around here since the cops came that one night. Instead of the usual chaos in the breezeway until midnight or so every night, it’s been almost total silence. Maybe she’s actually getting her kids to bed at a decent time? That in itself would be worth it to me. I haven’t heard back yet from CPS, but they will supposedly let me know what happened.
CPS isn’t that powerful and remember that your friend’s story is biased hearsay.
CPS cannot remove children from households, only a judge can make that decision.
I do know that failure to thrive in infants is one of the alarm bells and if the child’s age is listed wrong that cause a misunderstanding.
In any case, calling CPS is never a mistake. They investigate, they collect evidence if it’s there and they make a case to a judge if it’s warranted. It’s actually pretty hard to get a child removed and it takes a lot of evidence.
You should also know that CPS workers are not just out to steal people’s children. They are trained to look for ways to preserve families first and only go to a judge when the evidence of danger is very clear.
The nurse with the “strike one, strike two” stuff may have just had an indelicate way of pointing out elements that your friend had to work on. There is no actual system of “strikes” or counts of violations which trigger any automatic sanctions. Nothing happens at “strike three,” this was just a nurse who wasn’t especially sensitive. A lot of the people who do this work become embittered and hardened after a while. They don’t want to hear the excuses and the sob stories anymore they just want to tell these parents what they need to do to clean up their acts and move on to the next family. They see a lot of crap. I spent some time working with kids who had suffered unbelievable abuse. I’m talking actual torture. I once saw a four year old boy who had had an eye burned out with a cigarette. I was only working in a facility which provided care for these kids after they had been removed and they were the worst cases, so I can only imagine what it’s like to see something like that while the abuse is still active. I was also fortunate enough never to have to come face to face with the criminals who did those things or I would probably have ended up in jail for seriously beating the shit out f somebody.
I’m rambling but my point is that after a few years and a few psychic bullet holes from seeing the really sick shit that you could have never imagined in your darkest of moments and you start getting a little callous with these home visits. It’s not obvious which familes are the sick ones and which ones just need help so you just start suspecting everyone. It’s like Vietnam. You don’t know who Charlie is and some of the worst people can seem completely normal on the surface. Those CPS workers get a little batshit after a while.