Notice I want everyone to have long arms, not those short little pistols 
Freedom,
Yes, we have the right to own a gun. We also have a right NOT to own one if we so choose.
A right cannot be granted. It simply exists. If the right is not specifically acknowledged in the Bill of Rights, then it is still protected by the 9th Ammendment.
I choose to own a gun. I have no right to insist that another person exercise that right.
Good point. I had tried to draw a distinction (and maybe I misunderstand the terms) between registering, which I took to mean reporting to the government that you own a certain gun, and licensing, by which you would just be showing that you had achieved a general level of competency in gun operation. Licensing the potential gun user, not his/her ownership of any specific firearm. You know, like your driver’s license doesn’t in and of itself tell anyone what kind of car you own, or if you even own a car (although, thanks to auto registration, this information is certainly linked to DL records). While I was not making these kind of distinctions in my earliest posts, it was this kind of licensing-without-registration scenario I was describing toward the end of the day.
What is the difference between a compulsory draft and requiring people to own a firearm?
If the State decided that an armed citizenship was imperative to safegaurd our freedom, what stops them from trying to organize the state militias, and requiring every citizen to be armed?
I think that the Second Amendment SPECIFICALLY gives the states the right to require gun ownership in accordance with a well regulated milita.
There’s that Slippery Slope again.
“Well, if we can draft people, why can’t we just put them all in pods where they can do research for The State?”
But Libertarian…
We DID have a draft.
I am only asking what the difference is between being able to draft people in to the armed services, and being able to require firearms ownership?
How is a State supposed to be able to organize it’s militia if it doesn’t have the power to require firearms ownership?
We force people into jury duty.
We force people into paying taxes.
Ahhhhhhhh HA!!!
A good example…
We force people to have an education.
People have the right to an education, but we don’t have the right to NOT have an education.
Freedom [double take…]:
Yes, I know. That’s why I SAID, “Well, if we can draft people, why can’t we just put them all in pods where they can do research for The State?”
It illustrates the Slippery Slope principle.
Who cares? The point is that the draft was usurpatious to start with; therefore, it cannot be used as an ethical basis to justify anything.
Excuse my French, but fuck The State.
Yeah. We’re barbarians. And your point?
There is only one right, in my opinion, and that is the right to be free from coercion and fraud. That’s what meaningful Freedom is, freedom from the coercion and fraud of other people.
If I give you five dollars, will you have your username changed please?
Otay?
Libertarian wrote, in the OP:
Here is a picture of the original Bill of Rights, as submitted by the Congress to the States in 1789 for ratification: http://www.nidlink.com/~bobhard/billofrt.jpg
Note that 12 Proposed Amendments were submitted to the States, of which only 10 were ratified in 1791. But more importantly, check out “Article the Fourth”. This is the actual text submitted to the States that eventually became the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
This text does not have a comma between “keep and bear arms” and “shall not be infringed.”
We now return you to the debate already in progress.
Would you happen to know a link to a reputable site that has a legible picture of the original adopted constitution? Is it possible that a comma was inserted before final adoption?
http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/toc.html
The .pdf does not have a comma. Not that means anything necessarily. Still looking…
For $5 bucks? Cooooll…
When it arrives in the mail I will hop on and change my name. For another $10 I’ll let you pick it
(talk about setting yourself up for a fall)
Hey Lib,
Read my other posts on the other gun threads. I think you will find that we are probably closer than you think.
Someone asked what gun laws would be acceptable. I picked a set of gun laws that I knew would as hard for them to accept as their proposals are for me to accept.
Imagine I’m not argueing with you on this (because I’m not) and instead, imagine I’m having this discussion with somone who feels that the Second Amendment means crap and that the government pretty well has the right to do as it pleases. On one hand, you feel that the government has overstepped it’s bounds in every example that I have used. But on the other hand, my arguements are based on the “facts” that the big government people like to use.
Stop being so touchy. I want the government deciding things for me about as much as you do.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentii
Cornell law school has the comma… still looking…
http://www.rangemaster.com/new2/Second%20Amendment.htm
Pro-gun website doesn’t have the comma.
I couldn’t find any clear pictures… in fact, I could only find a few unclear ones.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/const/bor.html
The official government link to the Constitution. Exact wording only of amendments; no history or interpretation.
This one has the comma. No picture though.
That last one confirms it in my mind. There is supposed to be a comma there.
Padding my post count is fun.
Freedom:
I apologize for my hostility.
Please understand that your handle is the very essence of my personal ethic. Someone named “Freedom” recommending that The State force peaceful honest people to own guns has about the same effect on me as someone named “Jesus Christ” coming on the boards and calling for everybody to hate one another.
I understand.
It was meant to piss people off
Maybe if people on the other side of the guncontrol issue had an understanding of how people on this side feel, they would be less inclined to regulate my rights.
hehehehehehehe
It sure pissed you off. Sorry about that, I had always thought of us as being on the same side in this discussion. I was just trying to be unreasonable.
<Message to Brain>: l i c e n s e
<Brain to fingers>: l i s e n c e
<Brain to itself>: good! now we can knock off and play some Alien Crossfire! Hot Damn!!!
<Fingers among themselves>: hehehehe, just WAIT till he gets back to this thread on Monday! 
Perhaps the etymology might help you remember the spelling.
It is from the Latin licentia, to be permitted. The same root, oddly, gave us the word “licentious”, lacking legal or moral constraints.