John C. Kim is either a complete fraud or the greatest martial artist whoever lived.
For background,see http://rickross.com/reference/chung1.htm
John C.Kim is now in jail
http://www.tres.gov/irs/ci/articles/dockim99.htm
For the “official” line, see
and the sites for his schools.
It’s a fascinating story, but what I want to know is:
Regardless of the fact that he is a tax cheat and all the other bad stuff, my question is:
How does his martial arts skills compare to better known grandmasters?
My links are a little faulty.
I’ve been involved in MA in the Chicago area for a few years. I have worked with practitioners of many styles, and with instructors I believe enjoy rather widespread respect throughout the MA community. Also have good friends who are tight with folk up in Minn, and elsewhere. And I have never heard anyone mention Kim or his schools as anything other than a scam. And I have not heard anyone even mention them in this capacity for some time. Old news.
Curious, what “grandmasters” are you thinking about?
Well, since the first article you link to mentions that the practitioners of this style refuse to compete in open forums, I would have to say: “they don’t”.
Personally, I think Kasparov would kick his ass. 
Thanks so far. By “grandmaster” I guess I’m referring to ads I see in the Yellow Pages. You know, suchandsuch school has suchandsuch grandmaster as its founder. Some of the martial arts magazines have cover stories about various high ranking people, including grandmaster soandso. To sort of rephrase my question, ignoring that Chung Moo Quan aka Chung Moo Doe Aka Oom Yung Doe is a cult and that John C. Kim is a crook, How good a martial artist is he? Is it impossible to know? If ethics plays a role in martial arts, obviously he fails. I’m referring to his fighting abilities. He must know something.
Perhaps I should rephrase. Since neither he nor those people he has personally instructed demonstrate their skills against others, I can see no way for anyone to give a reasonable answer to your question.
Perhaps you could send some inquiries to his fellow inmates. Some of them might have had occassion to find out.
Hey Dinsdale (is that a Monty Python reference?) I realize the basic story is old news. Please forgive a newcomer. The story is still getting mileage on the board at
http://www.martial-arts-network.com/forum/forum_pg.htm
In addition, the schools have interesting webpages where the instructors have photos and biographies. Some are engineers, lawyers, doctors, and so forth. Of course, the outlandish claims at http://www.oomyungdoe.com bring me back to the reality of what this organization is. (Jumping off an 8 story building. Right.)
I still think that this is a fascinating story. Could you distill it down for me and just tell me what it’s all about?
P.S. I especially like it that one of the posters at the above mentioned forum has as his nickname Moo Doo Doo
Sorry, bro. I’m not your expert. I just train to be the most effective fighter I can be, and that is how I choose my instructors/training partners. In this context, this joker simply does not figure. Nor do flashy, mystical claims of various “grandmasters.” Or belt mills. We just have so much time, energy, money, etc. to spend on our training. So we choose not to waste it on unneccesary stuff. Which is a lot of what you will find in the most generally available media.
I am very fortunate to train with some exceptional people. So I channel my energy into maximizing what I get out of this relationship, instead of studying “curiosities.” MA is much more fun to DO, than to read about.
A lot of people make decent money in MA off of ignorance. I hope you do not hook up with one of them. If you are interested in MA, figure out what you want to get out of it. Not everyone practices MA to be the best fighter they can be. And not all arts, and not all schools within each art, are equally good at developing fighting ability. That said, there is no one art that is the BEST at developing fighting ability for all people. Anyone who tries to tell you that, is selling you a bill of goods. If you are interested in training, I’m sure some ppeople on this board could let you know if they know of anyone in your area.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help.