I’ve developed an interest in martial arts, and through researching different styles on the internet I’ve come to learn of the prevalence of “Bullshido” and the “McDojo”. It strikes me as an sad yet fascinating phenomenon. It really seems to be a minefield out there for the discriminating, prospective student.
Which martial arts are most susceptible to the bullshido/McDojo phenomenon, and why? In a general sense, on a scale of 1-10, how much bullshido is there in:
Tae Kwon Do:
Kung Fu:
Karate:
Ninjutsu:
Judo:
Jujutsu:
Aikido:
Hapkido:
Kenjutsu:
Brasilian Jujutsu:
Muay Thai:
I’m most interested in Kenjutsu. It looks like a beautiful and elegant disipline, and I find Samurai and katana lore/history intriguing. However, it must be hard to find a good kenjutsu school. Your thoughts?
This is based solely off my own experience in martial arts around Vancouver.
Tae Kwon Do: 9
Kung Fu: 5
Karate: 9
Ninjutsu: Haven’t personally visited one.
Judo:3
Jujutsu: 4
Aikido: 5
Hapkido: 6
Kenjutsu: No idea, haven’t personally visited one
Brasilian Jujutsu: 3
Muay Thai: 2
I wouldn’t really advise picking a martial art based solely on this kind of data though - you won’t be guaranteed to get a good gym, and you may end up learning a style you’re not keen on.
What interests you about martial arts? Do you want an opportunity to compete eventually? Is it for personal safety? Which style you pick has a lot to do with what you plan on doing with it. And, depending on what your reasoning is, you may not want to leave boxing off the list.
Most gyms in North America that I’ve seen offer an introductory class. If I were you, I’d visit at least a handful of them before I settled into one.
One more thing regarding muay thai: a lot of kick boxing gyms claim to be muay thai kick boxing and aren’t. If you were to add kick boxing to the list, it’d be around an 8 I think.
That guy makes some good points but it sounds like he mostly has an axe to grind with ATA. He says that he’s got “15 years experience” and was a “12 year old black belt”, so let’s suppose he took 3 years to hit that level at a McDojo, that makes him a 24 year old grumpy dude. Just keep that in the back of your mind. A lot of his “warning signs” put a “Dude, WTF” look on my face.
Reading his points, he’s very much of the opinion that a real legit martial art is all about practical self-defense and not much else. While that’s certainly a valid way to train it’s not what everyone is into - some people might want to learn traditional weapons styles within kung fu, or competitive TKD or kendo or something, and so following that guy’s advice and avoiding schools that don’t do lots of grappling wouldn’t help them much.
IMHO (since we’re here), take some time to figure out what style and what approach you are into, do your reading, talk to people who are into that art, and go check out some local schools. I’ve never seen a school that wasn’t happy to have a prospective student observe, and most places will give you your first class for free. See if the instructors are good teachers, what’s the student community like, how’s the overall tone, is it a good fit for what you want to learn?
I hope this isn’t a hijack. It’s somewhat related, anyway.
I’ve been thinking about studying a martial art. I’d like to learn something useful in a practical way, and improve my fitness at the same time (middle-aged, active guy here).
Some friends have recommended Krav Maga to me. Any opinions?
I stated earlier that I am primarily interested in kenjutsu, but with its apparent rarity, that might be a pipe dream.
For my second choice I would want to study a martial art that offered physical and mental conditioning and offered real and effective techniques for self defense. I would be interested in strikes and blocks, locks, holds, throws, ground work, etc… Did I just describe two or three arts? I doubt any one single art teaches all of that effectively…
Also, I’m not scared of working hard and busting my ass. It’s the only way, really. I don’t mind getting hurt as long as it’s not permanent. I’m also not too worried about superficial awards like belt promotions. I’m not a guy who needs to earn a black belt in 3 years, or whatever. I just want the goods, without any fluff.
Depends on where you are, I guess. Around here there are a few places that teach kendo, kenjutsu, iaijutsu and related arts.
If you’re interested in really learning how to defend yourself I will actually go with one of that guy’s recommendations, namely find a school that does a lot of full-contact work, whether it’s sparring with pads or wrestling or whatever. I am convinced that if you haven’t applied your techniques against an actively resisting opponent you haven’t truly learned to defend yourself. That’s one of the reasons that I enjoyed judo and BJJ, by their very nature you spend a lot of time practicing live with someone who is not cooperating, and because there isn’t any striking (and there is a safe way to deal with submission holds like chokes and locks) you can go pretty much full-on during practice. That also makes for a great workout.
I don’t know if there’s one particular style that includes everything. There are arts like Krav Maga that are built pretty much from the ground up for self defense; I know that I’ve seen schools around here offering general MMA (mixed martial arts) training, which includes boxing, muay thai and no-gi grappling.
Shamoozle
Can’t help you with the Kenjutsu. In truth, I’ve never even seen a Kenjutsu dojo.
For the rest of what you want I would recommend Ju Jutsu. It has everything you’re looking for although body types can make it a pain.
The Kali is good if you like weapons, sticks, knives, and short-swords. There is also an empty-handed portion of the curriculum that is taught last. The empty-handed part of Kali is a lot like Ju Jutsu. Check around Fillipino communities for this but beware of bullshit artists.
FWIW, I have a first dan in Ju Jutsu and a ranking more-or-less equivalent to a brown belt in Kali.
Pick a martial art, then find a good place to learn it. Trying to pick a martial art based on it’s potential for being taught incorrectly, is just not the way to start.
Are you interested in evasive non-striking moves? Do you want to learn how to deliver an effective strike? Are practical hand to hand combat techniques going to benefit you the most?
Define why you want to learn such a thing. Sport? Ass-kicking? Discipline? Self defense?
Where are your strengths? Are you tall, muscular, quick, dexterous, limber, able to walk on bamboo reeds?
How committed are you? How much are you willing to pay/sacrifice for this?
These are all important questions. Answer them before you just choose a discipline based on how many potential “McDojos” there might be for any given art.
If I may be a hypocrite for a moment… good luck finding a legal/useful ninjitsu Dojo. The traditional killing art is banned in some states, and poorly imitated in others. Standard “Karate” and Tae Kwon Do, as well as Kung Fu in some forms tend to get really watered down in the US. Even some of the better venues only provide an “ok” martial art IMO. YMMV.
Saintly Loser, I don’t know anything about Krav Maga, but Aikido is extremely good for endurance. The stretching routine also tends to be extremely comprehensive. The main downside, though, is a very shallow learning curve: in my experience it takes between two and five years for most people to grow confident and experienced enough for it to be a reasonable method of self-defense.
It depends on the school. I studied Kamatuuran Kali for a while, and plan to start again soon. They throw a little bit of everything at you and see what sticks, and then try to make more stuff stick. There’s also a hybrid art called Kajukenbo that has a similar philosophy, although they concentrate mostly on unarmed techniques.
Thanks for that, I hadn’t heard of Kamatuuran Kali. Probably lots of things in that category.
I started with one stick, then went to two and after that it was short-bladed cutting weapons and combinations. This was followed by the empty-handed portions. Frankly we didn’t get into the short-sword that much. It was fun, but not really all that useful and mostly recapped the stick techniques.
The empty handed parts were somewhat similar to Ju Jutsu, lots of locks, trips, throws, chokeholds and breaks. Not so much striking with the hands though.
I always enjoyed Kali because it was so informal. Uniforms were optional, not too much bowing, more or less the same rules as the Dope, Don’t be a jerk. It was refreshing after the Ju Jutsu classes.
I’ve got to get some more good rattan. Last week I ran out of good sticks and smashed part of a set made of Kamagong wood. That stuff’s too beautiful to actually use.
Shamoozle
If you want something that is good for kicking butt and that keeps you in great shape, try Thai boxing. You get whacked a lot which hurts, so if you have a problem with that it might not be your best bet. OTOH, it works VERY well for random violence. As someone up-thread mentioned, don’t accept kick-boxing as a substitute for Thai boxing. If you’re going to get whipped-on and exhausted you may as well get your money’s worth and actual Thai boxing is waaaay better than kick boxing.
Also, keep an eye on how the instructor teaches. When he demos something to a student, does he do it slowly and properly, or does he try to put them through the mat? I’ve had one instructor (British, full-contact professional) do this to me and it was a very long year. I also didn’t learn as much as I should have.
I forgot to add something. I’d give up on the Ninjutsu part of things. There really isn’t any good way to tell if what he’s teaching is actually some sort of Ninja technique or just something he saw on television. The whole Ninja thing is way overblown and there is some doubt about whether there is anything that could rightfully be called Ninjutsu.
For the above I would recommend trying Yoshinkan (or Yoshokai) Aikido, if you can find a dojo that teaches it. Like all forms of Aikido it uses strikes, locks, throws etc, but unlike most forms of Aikido it is much more immediately effective as a means of self defence (indeed it is taught to the Tokyo Police for this purpose).
Kenpo is all self defense. In the Tracy’s kenpo system there’s only a handful of weapons katas and all of the self defense moves up to 1st black are open-hand (although they say all of the moves are designed with the idea that you can do them with a weapon in hand).
Al Tracy himself is NOT a fan of sparring - says it teaches you to hit lighter and ignore the knees, which is true - but most Tracy’s Kenpo dojos will incorporate it into their schedules because that’s what people want. I’ve sparred plenty in my school.
There is no ground work in the beginning stages of Tracy’s Kenpo. Not sure if there are any (I’m only 1st black) as you go along. You really need to be kickass if you plan on not getting to the ground in a fight…Judo gives you amazing ground technique, tho.
So, from what I’ve seen, for pure self-defense, Kenpo is all that.
If you’re really interested in finding something “legit,” I would reccomend emailing a martial arts instructor at the nearest major university. I took a tae kwon do class in college from a first class guy who competed at a national level. He told us that basically anyone can set up shop and claim whatever they want just because of the lack of a governing force in the states… which is where I’m assuming you are.
He told us to check in with him if we wanted to know if the person had any credentials. Many large universities have kinesiology programs that include martial arts. It seems like they could givve you some reccomendations of good local places.
Kendo is Japanese sport fencing. It bears about as much resemblance to a real katana fight as European sport fencing does to a real rapier fight - very little. I’m not saying that they’re worthless, just that they’re not oriented towards actual combat.
Agreed. If you want to learn real katana technique, I suggest iaido. I’ve been starting to get into this, as well as tameshigiri (practice cutting) recently. Good info here.
