Martial Arts

Factual Questions
1

I plan to take a martial arts class this summer as provided by my college. There are many choices to choose from and reading up on the history and short descriptions of each does not narrow the choice for me.
I was wondering if there are any dopers out there with actual experience in these and could give me advice on which one to take up on.
Hapkido
Judo
Shotokan Karate
Ju-jitsu
I’m interested in learning a technique which doesn’t require much flexibility and kicking. Van Damme would not be for me but Steven Seagal would. I like techniques involving mostly hands. But of course the technique needs to be very effective or else it’d be pointless.

BTW: I am about 5’8-5’9 and 140 pounds
Thanks for the suggestions…

2

You might want to check out Goju-Ryu Karate. It has many joint lock/takedown techniques, while still retaining the essence of Karate.

3

Well, Shotokan (depending on your local dojo’s variation) isn’t very subtle. Block, close the gap and aim for one shot knockouts. You still need some flexability for a few kicks, although my instructor tended to favour hand techniques. Don’t worry about the flexability, it comes with training and it’s just something you build up.

BTW, Seagal does Akido. Had a friend who used to do this. They do penty of locks, deflections/blocks, holds and throws, but not much actual offensive combat. Be careful, my friend stuffed her sholder doing it, but YMMV.

Just remember there’s a good chance with takedown and throws that you’ll stuff up your back.

4

I would recomend Shotokan. Its very big on power and control, rather than flashy moves. Its not very stylish, but it gets the job done. I’ve studied a few styles of Karate, and that one has to be the easiets to learn and the most useful should you actually get into a fight.

5

Do guhiri-jitsu (sp?), it’s the ancient art of… killing someone in one shot. For people that are really annoying :wink:

But seriously, i’m not a big fan of the ‘flashy’ martial arts like taekwondo, most forms of now-taught karate, etc. They may be useful and extremely impressive, but practical? Don’t think so.

Ju-Jitsu is an excellent blend of martial forms which range from simple take-down techniques like judo (judo was a softer sport originating from ju-jitsu i believe), to actual weapon techniques like gu-hooks, bo-staff, and various other things. No shunning in the kicks and punches department either.

If you have the chance to take up a martial art called Krav-maga, try it, it’s basically non-glorified streetfighting, and survival techniques. Ranging from how best to disarm weapons from people, to what to do when you’re surrounded by bloodthirsty gangstars :>

6

Karate is all kicking and punching , so you really don’t to do that.
Although,as you’re fairly tall and light, you may suit a kicking martial art better.
Short and heavy people suit judo/jiu jitsu and tall, skinny people suit kicking styles like karate and tae kwon do.

If you want to be like Van Damme, then it’ll have to be the hapkido or the jiu jitsu.

BBTW Judo is a sport and not a martial art.

7

Karate is all kicking and punching , so you really don’t to do that.
Although,as you’re fairly tall and light, you may suit a kicking martial art better.
Short and heavy people suit judo/jiu jitsu and tall, skinny people suit kicking styles like karate and tae kwon do.

If you want to be like Van Damme, then it’ll have to be the hapkido or the jiu jitsu.

BBTW Judo is a sport and not a martial art.

8

Are you guys kidding? Given the choices lited in the OP and the desire expressed in the OP Hapkido is the only way to go.

Hapkido focuses on joint-locks and nerve pressure techniques (and some kick and hit techniques). These are simple (relatively speaking) and not dependant upon strength…therefore good for men and women, large and small. These techniques are also excellent in a bar brawl if you’re not looking to actually annihilate your opponent(s) and would rathger just subdue them.

In the end however just about any martial art will see its practitioner become a literal badass that could wail on most people they are likely to meet. Depending on circumstances one martial art may be considered better than another but it is a rock/paper/scissors deal. One art may be superior to another but then some other art is superior to your own.

Become proficient in any of the above arts and I guarantee you will have little to worry about from the sort of fights that most people find themselves in.

9

My style of Jiu jitsu is based on this too. Swings and round abouts really

10

You will find very little fundamental difference between judo, jujutsu, and the joint locking maneuvers found in hapkido. I hate to disagree with Whack-a-Mole, but I don’t see that Hapkido is the only way to go, just one of several that suit your needs. I also have to disagree with Daftbugger; I don’t see how jujutsu is going to make you anything like Van Damme. I think he dropped a negative in that sentence. I’m also fairly tall and skinny, and I do just fine in jujutsu techniques, so no generalized short-round requirement.

Frankly, I think all the options you list will meet your requirements. Shotokan is a very direct and “old” style of karate. It includes a full curriculum, but does not focus on the flashy stuff you see in movies. Judo comes from jujutsu roots, but has been modified to make it more suitable for competition. In general, you might find more close-work and ground-work in judo and more joint locking and stand-up throws in jujutsu, but that will vary by instructor.

I think you should really visit each class, talk to instructors and senior students, and see which group you fit in. Successful training in martial arts has a whole lot more to do with your teacher and peers than it does with the art you choose. Two equally qualified teachers might have teaching styles which differ widely, and one might fit you better. For instance, I’ve had instructors who would focus on a single technique for hours, drilling over and over in different variations to burn in reflexes. I’ve had other instructors who would move through techniques fairly quickly, covering a lot in a few hours with only a few repetitions each. Both work very well for different reasons, but some students react better to one or the other. Also, look for classes that have a lot of senior students. Your training will be enhanced if there are lots of people capable of teaching and not just a room full of beginners, and student retention can be an indication of a good teacher.

I’d urge you to devote some time to making your choice. Martial arts are “life arts”; you can’t expect to get much from a single summer’s study, but that will set you on a path to continued training that will be both enjoyable and beneficial. While you can always change arts and mix training in other styles later, it would be worthwhile to give each of these classes a test drive just like you would when buying a car or making any other long-term decision.

11

I’ve done Judo in college, it was a great experience mostly because the club was well run and taught. Judo is very much like wrestling, and is usually taught as a sport. The physical workout is excellent, as most of the techniques involve moving your opponent as well as yourself.

Techniques include throwing your opponent to the ground, grappling, joint locks, and choking. Sport Judo does not include strikes of any kind, so it is usually not focused on, though you may get some self defense instruction with it depending on the instructor.

micco’s suggestion is very good, test drive each class, if you can, and see which ones look the best to you. A well run class can draw you in and you will learn a great deal, regardless of the style being taught. Do you have any particular needs to fill with this class?

12

Before I can answer your question, I’d need to know why you’re interested in studying a martial art…self-defense, fitness, flexibility…each art will provide you with all of these (and more), but each to varying degrees. OTOH, if all you’re interested in is impressing your friends and/or kicking some ass, perhaps you should take up chess.

13

Let me first say that I do not want to look like Van damme. The flashy kicks and flips are too much for me. My goal is to begin to learn a technique which utilizes mostly on hand movements (watch most seagal movies) to subdue, strike the enemy helpless. One would assume that fitness, self-defense and flexibility would result from any martial art chosen.

“Kicking ass” and “impressing people” is definitely not the route I look to take. In fact, I prefer the opposite…I live in Atlanta and downtown can be a very dangerous place. If you ever get in trouble, you’re usually down to your bare hands to fight and perhaps even save your life. I can’t imagine doing roundhouses and backflips on the sidewalk…lol It just seems too flashy and silly.
I understand Akido is what I would want, but since it is not provided, would starting hapkido be the way to go for me?
On a side note, Bruce Lee supposively had no technique because he did all sorts of styles…that puzzles me…how did he know what to do in what situation? I’m sure different martial arts would call for a different technique to use in a given situation…so would he choose whatever he wanted, on the spot, sort of like freestyle rapping?

14

SoulSearching:

I have studied several martial arts, but I have a belt in ju-jitsu. I may be prejudiced.

Contrary to Steven Seagal, Aikido was conceived as a non-violent self defense. You use your opponents momentum against him: guide him to the ground and hold him there. Even though your opponent is trying to hurt you, you can protect yourself without harming your opponent. It is considered the “softest” martial art.

Kung fu and the karates are the “hard” arts: mostly blocking and hitting and kicking. Some do teach nerve attacks, holds and come-alongs. However your main response is to hurt and disable your attacker.

Judo is a sport. It is somewhat limited as self defense. Having said that, it is very effective at what it does. You can cause your opponent to black out or even kill him if you wish. He will not get up unless you let him.

Ju-jitsu centers on deflecting attacks and controlling your opponent. This is usually done by taking the opponent to ground. This can be either very gentle or very powerful. Ju-jitsu also has karate and nerve attacks and holds and come-alongs. I taught jujitsu as the all-encompassing art. I taught aikido, kung fu, chi na and karate techniques as part of the universe of ju-jitsu.

With ju-jitsu you have the ability to harm but the means to not harm. This makes it great for controlling your drunk friend, or protecting your life.

15

Jujutsu (Ju-jitsu in your OP, spellings differ) is very similar to Aikido. They tend to teach the same techniques with slightly different mechanics. For example, both will have a certain type of lock/throw, but the Aikido version will be very circular, using the opponent’s momentum to spin and corkscrew where the jujutsu version might be more linear, pushing the lock directly back along the opponent’s line. Steven Seagal does aikido, but his style is very much like aikido’s early methods and like its aiki-jujutsu roots, so it’s likely that a jujutsu class would resemble his style more than most modern aikido styles. There’s a large variation among the different “flavors” of aikido, so some are more like the jujutsu roots and others less so.

I don’t know enough about hapkido to compare or contrast.

Bruce Lee originally studied Wing Chun, a Chinese kung-fu style noted for short-range linear technique. Later in his career, he mixed in techniques from many different styles including karate, boxing, and some SE Asian arts. However, he was an exceptionally talented martial artist and was qualified to take techniques from different styles and integrate them. He created his school called Jeet Kun Do which advocates practical assessments of techniques, keeping what works and discarding the superfluous. However, the judgement on what works and what doesn’t has to be made by a “master”, and most martial artists who try to integrate or synthesize styles end up with a confusing mish-mash.

Bruce Lee definitely had specific techniques for different situations and, like most masters, he probably relied more on fundamental tactics than specific techniques. When you first start sparring in martial arts, you’ll often find yourself trying to execute a specific technique regardless of the situation, forcing the circumstances to fit rather than adapting to them. As you get better, you start to be able to choose the proper technique on the fly. Later still, you may not even execute “textbook” techniques, but use the basic strategies and tactics of your art to just execute methods that work. I’m certainly not at that level, but I’ve sparred with people who were like that and when we went back to analyze a match, they wouldn’t say “here’s where I executed X-technique”. Instead, they would say “he presented this opening, so I did this, which looks sort of like X-technique except that I did it this way because…” It’s kind of like the difference in musicians who can read music, play by ear, or improvise. It’s not a lack of technique, but a transcendence of technique, if that makes sense.

16

soul searching,
follow the shotokan path. the rest will teach you resistance only, or will focus on those techniques primarily. going with the flow is great, but you must also know how to defend yourself. all martial arts are good. it depends on the instructor. if someone tells you they will turn you into a bad ass, get out. the martial arts are about patience and time.

17

If you wanted to use it for self defense, but be aware of the limitations. While you do learn a lot of useful techniques, it still take a long time to make them instinctively available in a streetfight. Also, a lot of the distance that many martial arts favour is gone; and if you have that distance it’s better for a swift kick to the goolies and then legging it. It’s better than explaining to the cops why you killed 4 guys and paralysed a couple for self defense. In a real fight expect a lot of knees, elbow, headbutts and bites (yes, it ain’t pretty).

If you’re being being attacked by a group, even a x’th level black belt is going to get pummeled. If you’re attacked by a lone drunk, you should be able to outpace him until he loses interest. If you want self defense for immediate use, go to the ones held by kickboxing clubs. And remember the mantra, “eyes, nose, throat, groin!”

Oh, yeah lurker I can relate. There is this dodgy university branch that bragged that I would be fighting in the ring with pads after a couple of lessons. I didn’t join as I valued my life, but IIRC, pads+newbies-control = many injuried newbies.

18

I took judo in college and have nothing but good things to say about it. My judo instructor also taught an introductory hapkido course and that was pretty cool, too.

What kind of jiu jitsu is it? I’m planning to start taking Brazilian jiu jitsu here. The instructor also teaches tae kwon do (sp?) and from his description, if self-defense is your goal, then go for the jiu jitsu if it is the Brazilian type. He said in no uncertain terms that someone who had taken three months of that would beat one of his tae kwon do black belts with little difficulty. I took a little Japanese jiu jitsu one summer, I don’t remember which style, and I wouldn’t recommend that. But that instructor was too formal and wrecklessly dangerous… The school of jiu jitsu will greatly affect what you actually learn. The Japanese style I did that summer focused almost exclusively on standing techniques, whereas the Brazilian seems to be concentrated on ground fighting.

If you’re looking for exercise and something you can persue in the long term, I’d recommend judo. No punching & kicking means that it is easier on your joints and it is designed specifically to be safe to practice. That also means that you can train harder which will prepare to apply a throw for real if you really have to.

I’m skeptical of anybody who says that judo isn’t good for self-defense. A simple throw will hammer your opponent into the concrete with significant force. Some throws are truly crippling to a naive attacker on pavement. O soto gari, one of the first five throws you’ll learn, will take an opponent from standing to flat on his back in about a half a second. Well practiced and slightly modified, you will be able to take a standing man of appreciably greater size than you and literally plant his head in the pavement before any other part of his body touches the ground. Since not many martial arts focus on standing throws, relatively few people will know how to block a throw.

If you want to learn hand techniques, i.e. standing joint locks, then I’d recommend hapkido. From what my instructor taught in his intro course, it is a pretty rounded style. I don’t know if it involves ground fighting. It did involve punching & kicking as well as joing locks and that sort of thing. Worth noting, he said that hapkido is different from every other martial art in a very important way: they start teaching few techniques and you learn more as you advance, whereas in hapkido you start learning lots of techniques and then start pruning down until you have a handful of techniques that you can apply reflexively. He said that when he got his first black belt (which wasn’t in hapkido) he found himself in a fight and got beat up because he didn’t know which thing to do. There were so many tools in his tool box that he couldn’t choose quickly enough. With hapkido, according to him, the opposite is true. You’ll have a small tool box of effective moves that you can use instictively.

So there you go. The tae kwon do instructor says to take Brazilian jiu jitsu if you want to learn self-defense. The judo & hapkido instructor says hapkido will leave you with a small toolbox of effective moves you can apply instinctively. And the guy who took judo in college says that judo may be a sport, but when you use the concrete to crush somebody’s skull, dislocate a shoulder, or break several ribs, what difference does it make?

As a final note, philosophically I really enjoyed judo the best. Although you may find your instructor to be of the spiritual view, judo is essentially a pholosophically materialistic sport. For example, when I first started one of the black belts told me that I should yell when I throw. Asked why, he said, “It is supposed to do with some spiritual crap, but actually it just gets you more points.” (Because if the throw ends up being too ugly, the judges knows who acted with intent.) Judo is basically applied physics. And like all physics, it is accessable to anyone. There is no intangible forces to contact, no psychic powers to harness, no superstitions to adhere to. I like that. And since judo is a truly full-contact affair, much like wrestling, what succeeds on the mat is what is effective to throw you opponent with force, to choke him unconscious, to make him submit with an arm lock, or to pin him for 30 seconds. Moves that prove dangerous are cut from the sport. Moves that don’t work are not taught or used (except for belt tests).

19

Based on your desires, I’d say that hapkido or jujitsu would be best, with judo coming in third, for the reasons everyone’s already mentioned. Keep in mind, the arts can vary greatly based on the instructor, so observing a class or asking the instructor what and how they teach is a great idea. For example, Brazilian and other jujitsu can be wildly different.

One thing to remember - a summer is not going to make you an expert. The best forms of self defense are running away or not getting into the situation in the first place. Martial arts are for when you can’t do that.

20

Non-glorified is right - I took a few lessons in krav maga (Hebrew for “contact fighting”, BTW) in the army, and the first thing they tought us was the correct method of kicking a guy in the balls.