This might belong in Great Debates, we’ll see if a debate stirs. The link below leads to a 5-minute film made by what appears to be college students who live in the Atlanta area (as I do) who decided one day to ‘obey the law’, that is, go no faster than the speed limit. The speed limit for 285, which they drive on, is 55mph, and this is the case for the entire perimeter of the city (it may be faster on the west side, but I don’t think so). In maintaining the speed limit, they set up their cars to use up each lane so that nobody could pass, thereby enforcing the law onto those behind them, save for a couple of notable exceptions.
Watch it and let me know what you think, my opinion is below:
As someone who lives here, I can attest that the speed on Atlanta’s highways are either 10mph during rush hour, or 75-90mph any other time of the day (and I am as guilty as the rest). On the one hand, I really appreciate what they did, to show that the speed limit laws, at least on this particular stretch of highway, are archaic and should be changed, but I think their message and presentation are lost in the wacky antics of the dangerous van driver and the unhappy pickup truck driver (I’ll save the generalization of the oversized pickup truck driver for a BBQ thread someday). Ultimately it comes off as a silly prank played by stupid college kids determined to piss people off, rather than an attempt at a serious treatise that could be sent to legislature or anyone that would have power to change the law.
I think they have a damn good point. The law should be changed. Unfortunately, we are now programmed to go ten miles over the speed limit no matter what so it’ll just mean that people will drive even faster.
I always thought that a stunt like that would be a good protest by truckers upset at gas prices, speed limits, what ever truck drivers want to protest.
Forgive me if this response is a little… well… geeky, but read the id. k?
We are not going to solve the problem of speed limits until the decision of whether or not to speed is out of the hands of the human driver. Given the history of computer driven automobiles in the recent past, I think that there might actually be a solution brewing. (Whether the legal system can allow it is another question entirely…)
But… basically, this just sounded like a bunch of college kids getting pissy. “I can go 75 but I’ll get ticketed for 80, when that’s only, like 5mph faster…”
The point of that, though, is when do the cops decide to start enforcing the law? Since they obviously aren’t enforcing the listed 55 mph speed limit, when DO they start enforcing it? These kids, IMO, want a posted speed limit that is fair and actually enforced. It’s not fair to have a posted speed limit that virtually EVERYONE disobeys, but only some of the law-breakers get tickets. There is no clear line drawn there, which is unfair. If the speed limit on that road was 70, and people that went over 70 were ticketed, that would be fair. But it being posted as 55 when no one actually goes 55 and aren’t being ticketed for going 60 or whatever, is not fair.
speedlimits set too low for the conditions are also dangerious as people will drive based on the road, others will drive based on the limit, the differential in speed is the problem.
Also setting speed limits LOWER assuming that people will excede it by a certain amount is IMMORAL - it makes normal people’s behaviour illegal and gives the gov’t (law enforcement) a reason to stop you for doing nothing wrong.
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My proposed solution is to post the enforcement tolerances along w/ the speed limit, so if you are given a 20 mph leaway on a 55 mph road, you know that 73 is totally safe, while 76 will get you a wapping 21 mph over the limit ticket. This way you can allow traffic to flow at the natural speed of the road, not play guessing games with the public, and narrow the differential in speed betweeen cars.
I’ve had a similar discussion with my dad. I can understand how the mysterious “true” speed limit (known only to the local troopers) is vaguely offensive to a sense of good order and discipline (and has the potential for abuse and selective enforcement). On the other hand, I look around, and millions of people get where they’re going with a mix of speed and safety that we’ve developed through a collective consensus.
The current system is chaotic and makes no sense; it just works.
I’ve observed that most everywhere people operate there are rules on one hand and the way things actually get done on the other. If you think about this and don’t get too off-hand about your awareness of the rules, things work fairly well.
The rule on the highway is the posted speed limit, but the reality is that as long as there is an orderly flow of traffic and no yellow Ferraris are darting about, the speed is usually irrelevant.
If you’re exceeding the flow rate however, watch out. Once you get how the system works, the phony posted limit won’t bother you so much.
And people, both those who drive the limit and those who drive the road, will use it as a justification for assholishness toward the other group, and create dangerous situations. Those who drive the limit will refuse to stay out of the fast lanes to try to control the ones who drive the road. This can lead to tailgating and unsafe passing. Those who drive the road will tailgate the ones who drive the limit, in an attempt to intimidate them into driving faster. Setting the speed limit at something more realistic at least gets rid of the justification for jerkish passive-aggressive behavior for those who currently drive the limit.
The problem would be that the speed limit would have to be set to something reasonable for good driving conditions (or else people will exceed it in good driving conditions). That’s a problem when driving conditions aren’t good- like in fog, rain, or snow. We could get around this problem by having variable speed limits, like they do on some roads in England (there’s a light-up board with the current speed limit on it).
Note: I’m not saying that everyone who drives the speed limit or everyone who drives faster than that is an asshole. I am saying that everyone who tries to make other drivers either drive the speed limit or exceed it is an asshole. Unless, of course, they are the cops, and then they should make people drive the speed limit by giving tickets to those who don’t.
That’s misleading. Out of how many hundreds of millions of car trips did those mishaps occur? How many of those wrecks were due to impairment, inattention, malfunction or weather? Even then, if you take only the speed-related crashes, how many of those had anything at all to do with the speed limit?
Personally, I think the police should just start enforcing the speed limit, even where it’s 55 mph. It’s their job to enforce the law, not to interpret it. If an overwhelming majority of people think that’s slow, let them petition the city/state/whatever to change it.
I usually limit my speed to 60 mph anyway. Not out of some sense of moral righteousness or to piss off other drivers, but because I just don’t feel the neecd to rush. And it saves gas.
I have often wondered what keeps state police from running two cars side-by-side right at the speed limit. Space them every 5 miles apart or so.
Or perhaps single squad cars could do it – anyone who passes a police car going the limit gets a picture of their license taken and a ticket mailed to them.
I guess you’d need a lot of cars on the road for the first metho of enforcement suggested above. Still, I would love to see the especially aggressive interstate drivers go nuts as they are in a situation in which they can’t call the shots.
Here in Utah, the general rule is “They’ll give you ten, but not twelve.” As in, you can get away with ten miles over the speed limit, but not much more than that.
I do a two hour commute every weekend, and I have to say that the closer I get to the “Big City”, the worse everyone’s driving becomes. And having come through that city’s public education driver’s ed, I know why–they passed people who should never, ever get behind the wheel of a car.
The thing that drives me completely batshit crazy is people passing me on the right. Half of my commute is a three lane highway, speed limit 65. I usually stay in the middle lane going a healthy 75. There are people passing me on the left going 80. And there’s always a couple assholes for whom going only 15 miles over the speed limit just isn’t good enough who roar up from behind, lurch into the right lane at the last second, shoot by me, then lurch back as soon as possible. It’s actually rather dangerous to go the speed limit, even if one sticks tight in the far right lane, because of people like this.
i see some replies attacking how these people came about their decision, like how they said that going 75 and getting ticketed is really going 5 miles an hour faster than everyone else, but it’s actually 20 over the limit. attacking the people because they happen to be college kids and might not have formed their stance isn’t the point. the point that gets raised is “is the speed limit fair and being fairly enforced?” the answer to both those questions is no. this also shows that perhaps cities don’t place much importance on this, for if they did, they’d be out there enforcing the posted law, or make it know to everyone that there is a 10 mile per hour cushion either way of the posted limit…call it a “clemency zone”. if there is no clemency zone, then the speed limit should be strictly enforced (like on residential side streets).
are these people making a great point? yes. did they go about it in the best way? maybe they did. it certainly brought the issue up. it shows that the speed limit really means nothing. it’s up to the city now. if they do nothing, then they tacitly acknowledge that their speed limits mean little and that they’re to be enforced when each individual policeman feels like it. if they do something, then they agree there’s a problem. i see the city of atlanta doing nothing, unfortunately.
I think it’s an interesting method of illustrating the point, but I don’t know if the kids are correct in saying “We’ll obey the law… we’ll drive 55.” I have to think that there have to be some traffic laws they were breaking, though I sure as hell don’t know what they would be. The fact that the drivers were so nervous about doing so made it appear that there is something unsafe about occupying EVERY lane of traffic, including what I call “passing lanes” without passing.
Anyway, regarding the discussion at hand:
I can’t drive 55. I’m a habitual speeder, but I like to think that I don’t drive aggressively — tailgating, weaving in and out of traffic passing people, or driving too fast for inclement road conditions — but maybe I’m just fooling myself and I’ve just been lucky.
I suspect that inattentive driving — including heavy cell phone use in heavy traffic areas — is a growing factor in automobile crashes.
But then, insurance companies hit speeders with higher insurance rates. Who would know better than those guys as to the cause and effect of speeding.
This is a long-standing (and probably irreconcilable) debate. On one side are those whose position is “No passing on the right - period.” The other side says, in effect, "You are entitled to one lane, but not two. If you don’t want to be passed on the right, don’t park in the center lane when the right lane is open.
I don’t see how those are opposing opinions. “No passing on right” usually implies “slower traffic keep to the right.” If you come up to a vehicle hogging the fast lane, flash the high beams and tell him/her to move to the slow lane. I’d much rather be told to move to the right lane (I would do it promptly) than get passed on the right.
You would be correct, if the right lane were open. But it’s usually just as packed as the other lanes–if not more–especially with multiple entrances and exits. It’s generally a good idea to keep out of the way of people who are trying to merge. Plus, I don’t think going 75 in a 65 is “parked”. Frequently I’m going faster than other people in that lane, so I will pass them on the correct side, at the correct speed (80) then get out of the way of the people behind me as soon as it’s safe to do so. I simply prefer not to go that fast.
They drop in and out of the right lane, hopefully without hitting anyone.