A national language

Great Debates
1

My husband and I were discussing this last night. He is a truck driver and has run into a lot of problems with other drivers who do not speak English. We don’t mind other languages and cultures but for safety’s sake I wonder if all people in the U.S. should learn the English language.

In some schools in the area they are making it mantitory for our students to learn Spanish, when some of the kids can’t even read yet. I know that kids can learn language faster when they are young, but I feel that it shouldn’t be manditory for our kids to learn Spanish.

I’m not against other cultures at all, but an example of this problem is the Russian man that killed his family earlier this week. The police are having a hard time because most people in the neighborhood do not know English. I know the can get a translater but I would think they would lose valuable time with this.

I know of a few people who have been living in this country for years and have made no attempt to learn the language. I wouldn’t think of going to another country without learning a little bit of the language. Communication is important.

I hope my hillbilly heritage isn’t showing too much, but I was wondering what you all thought about it. :slight_smile:

2

This is an emotional issue to me. My paternal grandmother never learned English after came to the US. She lived in a ghetto for over 40 years. Radio and TV were closed to her. What a sad life!

Of course, anyone who lives in a country ought to learn that country’s language.

3

As a practical matter, reading, writing, and speaking English here are prerequisites for getting anywhere–and people who claim it shouldn’t be are foolish, in my opinion. And yes, it should be the goal in public education to get the kids educated in English as fast as is practical.

But as a political matter, it seems to me that if the US stands for freedom of the individual, then the individual has the right to accept the consequences and not use/learn English. Some people can’t or won’t, and there shouldn’t be a penalty for this other than what society will incidentally impose just by conducting most transactions in a language these persons can’t understand. (Not that I think that’s where you were going with this, dragongirl–I’m not directing that at you.)

Actually, I see nothing wrong with teaching kids a second language at an early age–the more people you can communicate with the better off you are–and in this hemisphere (and given the population demographics of the United States) Spanish is the logical one to learn.

4

No I wasn’t going in that direction at all. I just can’t understand why things like drivers licence tests and even the citizenship tests are given in so many different languages. It almost seems like our government adds to this problem. I realize that the U.S. is a big melting pot, but how can we melt when we can’t communicate. I think that mabey some of the reason there is so much hatred is because we can’t understand each other. I realize that would always be the case but I would imagine there are many people that could be friends if they could communicate but they can’t, so it will never be. I think that immigrants should learn a little English before they can come into the U.S.

5

Hmmm, think you can get a few English classes in while running from death squads in your rural area of Ethiopia? OK, I’ll admit that many people don’t come here as refugees, but even making some prerequisite English knowledge for non-refugees is a poor idea because many of these people looking to come here are dirt poor and have no access to language classes. They’re coming to America to gain opportunities, so they can take English classes here. As for the serial killer, I knew the FBI was in poor shape, but they can’t even get a Russian translator? Geez, they’re sounding more and more like the Keystone Cops. You could mandate that people learn English, but there’d be virtually no way to enforce that for adults (the language police?), especially those living in areas like the South Bronx where you may not have to interact with people who speak English.

6

I say that someone should make an easy to use inexpensive translator.

I think that immigrants who speak english should be favored over ones who don’t, but otherwise having an official language is usually just a big hassle.

7

[list=1][li]The United States of America does not have a national language.[/li][li]The biggest problem the police are having in the case of the Ukrainian immigrant/suspected killer is the family and the rest of the community aren’t cooperating with the police that much.[/li][li]The Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department did bring in Russian-speaking deputies.[/li][/list=1]

Try to keep up with the facts, okay.

8

If you allow people to enter your home does it become less yours? People that are at least functional in English have greater potential and thereby strengthen the whole. This country has always had high immigration numbers, but only recently has it become unfair to learn our language. Motivated people will succeed no matter what. The rest will find excuses.

9

If you allow people to enter your home does it become less yours? People that are at least functional in English have greater potential and thereby strengthen the whole. This country has always had high immigration numbers, but only recently has it become unfair to learn our language. Motivated people will succeed no matter what. The rest will find excuses.

10

Go for it. At the moment, such a thing is only in the realm of Star Trek.

I see both good and bad arguments for and against having a national language. There are also countries which have more than one national language and they seem to be getting by.

Personally, I support having one particular language identified as the official language. That does not mean that I’m against learning foreign languages nor am I against providing translations of official documents as needed to the public.

All in all, it’s a quite complex issue.

11

From the INS web page:

“To be eligible for naturalization, you must be able to read, write, and speak basic English…”

http://www.ins.gov/graphics/services/natz/natzsamp.htm
There are exceptions. If you are over 50 and have lived in the US for at least 20 years or if you are over 55 have been a Permanent Resident for 15 years, you are not required to take the English test. You may take the civics test in the language of your choice.

In FY 1996, 14.8% of naturalized immigrants were between the ages of 45-64. Those immigrants aged 65 and over accounted for 4.6%. BTW, these are the most recent data I could find at the INS web page. It would appear that a majority of people applying for citizenship are required to take the English test.
Statistics page:
http://www.ins.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/annual/fy96/1011.htm
For the immigration guide, please see:

http://www.ins.gov/graphics/services/natz/insfnl.pdf

12

Vhetefer mekes yuoo theenk thet zee “Ingleesh” spukee by troock dreefers is cumprehenseeble-a tu zee generel Ingleesh speekeeng pupooleshun?

My cer ceme-a veet a CB. Fur zee lest cuoople-a ooff yeers I hefe-a yet tu be-a eble-a tu fulloo unytheeng zee troock dreefers sey oon it, despeete-a my hefeeng beee un Ingleesh pruffessur. Bork Bork Bork!

13

Yer not missin’ much Muffin. They’re talking about traffic, cops, and chicks.

Here’s an obscure one for you- “The big sign is up” means that the weigh station ahead is closed so the trucks won’t have to pull over. ( “Closed” making a bigger sign than “Open”. ) Oh and a “seat cover” refers to one of the three main topics above. I’m sure you can figure out which. I’d give you more but it’s been a while since I went on the road with my old man.

As for English as a national language, given how much we base our judgement of a person on the manner in which they communicate I have to agree with MysterEcks. Things are tough enough for non-English speakers.

Just my 2sense
When I refer to my 2sense, I’m actually talking about my weird fifth sense. Not sixth. By some tragic accident, I was born without taste buds. - sig courtesy of Surgoshan

14

Wow, crazy stuff. The whole Ukrainian killer thing happened in my hometown, Rancho Cordova. Rancho Cordova is an interesting place. It used to be a ninteen fifties style suburb. With a series of economic downturns sourerd the suburban feel of the place. It soon become improvrished and crime ridden. It has always been a popular place with immigrants (67 different languages were spoken at my smallish high school), but the recent influx of Ukraninan/Russian/Armeinian immigration has completely changed the town. I was neighbors with many Ukrainian people. Many were my close friends.

Warning Generalizations Follow: Most of the people in Rancho are extrememly religious. We are talking weekly prayer cermonies in their backyards. In Soviet years, their religion led to much trouble, and they greatly value the freedom of worship here. The Ukrainians in Rancho are a very family oriented group. They often have many children, and extended families are very close. Their families seem very warm and loving most of the time. But, it is also a very traditional society. Visitor to a Ukrainian home can expect to have huge and hearty meals, all prepared by the wife. At a recent Ukrainian wedding (a huge event involveing at least 1000 people, a four hour ceromony and literally tons of food) part of the ceromoney involved children presenting the bride with various household impliments and reciting a little poem. The vows include promises that make the femminist in me gasp in horror. But, on the whole the Ukrainians are perfect neighbors. They are the kind of neighbors that will bake you cookies for no apparent reason. The old couple (at least eighty)I lived next door to used to give us hugs and plant flowers in our front yard. The young men would wash our car along with theirs. They have really turned Rancho from a slum into a warm and colorful place to be.

I can see how there can be trouble in the community. Most Ukrainians see their immigration as a matter of necessity. They love America, and work towards citizenship, but they still feel like they were forced out of their homeland. It is hard for them to ajust to a place where they don’t speak the language, arn’t qualified for the jobs and face a new and scary set of values. Many of the men feel disempowered. Many of the women feel isolated and have no one to turn to outside of the Ukrainian community. No wonder they are having trouble cooperating with the police.

I am visiting Rancho tommorow, and don’t look forward to it. This incident is a terrible blot on a group that is working so hard to ajust to a new world. I guess I am just shocked that Rancho Cordova is in the spotlight, and it isn’t about the gang violence, methamphetamine labs and general criminality that plagues us for so long. It is about a group of the very best neighbors I have ever had.

So…back on track…

I think a National Language (or the de facto expectation of English speaking) is a bad idea. The language of an area is determined by one thing- the language that the people that exist in that area speak. In some places, that is English. In others, that is Spanish. In some places, it is a variety of languages. I find it ridiculous that in California, where we live in towns like San Diego, Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, we get all up in arms when someone speaks the language that this state was founded with. If you don’t like not understanding Spanish, why don’t you try learning it instead of sitting around saying “why don’t those people all speak English”! Honestly, if you live in California you have no excuse not to speak Spanish. Our schools have no excuses for not teaching all kids what have become the de facto tongues of our state. Our schools treat other languages more like ceramics class than a serious and important subject. They don’t even start teaching until our brains are all set in English mode anyway and we have a slim chance of retaining anything.

And no, learning another language is not a major hardship in your life. It will not hurt you to learn to communicate with the people around you. Americans wear their monligism as a badge of pride. It is ridiculous in the extreme. In most of the rest of the world, even peasents speak several languages. An educated monogot would be a contradiction in terms.

Beyond that, the “threat” of the foreign tongued folks isn’t really there. Few second generation Americans don’t speak English. In Rancho Cordova elementry schools, kids with names like Oksana, Olga and Sergei speak perfect Ukrainian, Russian and English with equal ease. Their children will be lucky to know Ukrainian at all. I guess I kind of consider that losing something, not gaining. Perhaps I fail to see the threat in a bunch of old Ukrainian people having their church service in Ukrainian and picking up translations of their tax forms.

15

I do realize that there is no national language for the U.S.
I was just wondering if there should be one. I wouldn’t dream of going to Japan without speaking Japanese, and I wonder why folks come from other countries to the U.S. without making an attempt to learn English.

I do realize that if your life is in danger you only want to get out and at that time you cannot reasonably learn English, but once here I feel that there is no excuse not to try.

I think that somewhere down the line a lot of immigrants expect that we should be bending to them rather then them being grateful that they are here. Not to say there aren’t very thankful immigrants, I know that there are, but I also know there are quite a few of them that come over and critize us and I don’t feel that is right. I certainly wouldn’t go to there countries and critize them. Somehow the attitude has changed. My father in law came here from France 50 years ago and worked very hard to learn English because he did not expect everyone to know French just for him. I wonder why that is no longer the case with immigrants.

I have no problem if someone wants to learn another language but in my country I don’t feel I should be required to speak anything I don’t want to because immigrants who come over think they shouldn’t have to learn my language. I didn’t ask them to come here

16

What I find incredibly amusing, in a pathetic sort of amusing, is that so many of the people who maintain that learning English isn’t such a hardship for foreigners can hardly write very well in the language themselves. Witness the atrocious spelling of one poster above for just one instance.

17

So, you shouldn’t be required to learn a language you don’t want to learn but people who don’t speak the language you speak should be required to learn a language they may not wish to learn, eh? Don’t you think that it is a generalization that immigrants don’t want to learn your language? Where is the requirement that states that everyone in this country must be able to communicate with you via your language? Obviously, you didn’t ask them to come here, and had you done so, they might not have understood the request.

I’ll note that the ability to communicate in English in the United States of America will most likely facillitate acclimation and promote successful relations in many situations; however, the premises to your argument are seriously flawed.

18

I think some people don’t learn English because they don’t need to. They have their own community that they get along in fine without having to learn English. In fact, it’s harder to learn English if you never have any instance to practice it.

Oh, and make sure your kids learn Spanish. It is a very marketable job-skill to be bilingual (go figure) in lots of areas of the country that have populations that don’t speak English.

19

Sheesh. Teaching children spanish? What will they think of next – music lessons?

In Canada, there are two official languages. Students have to take both french and english. From what I can tell from talking with students there (and havign lived there), it gives many of them the feeling that there are other languages that are okay – which frankly, seems to be something that some americans never learn.

Me’Corva

20

quote:

Originally posted by evensven

“If you don’t like not understanding Spanish, why don’t you try learning it instead of sitting around saying “why don’t those people all speak English”!”

One could use the same argument, in reverse, when talking to a Spanish-speaking immigrant who complains that his life is so limited in so many ways.

quote:

Originally posted by evensven

“And no, learning another language is not a major hardship in your life. It will not hurt you to learn to communicate with the people around you.”

The same comment applies to the above quote.

I am NOT a xenophobe, and think that having everyone learn Spanish is a good idea. I also think that communication would be a little bit easier if everyone were pushed a little more to learn one national language. Or maybe even two!! The unofficial, “official” language of the U.S. is and has been English. Sure, we can usually manage to get someone to interpret a non-English speaker if we’re desperate, but wouldn’t things be easier for potential immigrants if they learned a li’l’ English? There’s no need for fluency, they just need to be capable of handling basic needs (getting what they need in a food market or clothing store) and communicating somewhat with emergency personnel.

quote:

Originally posted by evensven

The language of an area is determined by one thing- the language that the people that exist in that area speak.

That’s all well and good, but what if a non-Ukranian speaker (for instance) who lives a few towns over is passing through, gets lost, can’t get directions because no one speaks English? Would you tell him, “Tough shit, bud. If you thought you’d be passing through, you should have learned Ukranian!”? My point is, we all have to have the ability to communicate, even a little, in case we need to. Having everyone know a single language facilitates that.

I took an interpersonal communication course at my college this summer, and the “national language” debate came up. Many people who were children or other relatives of immigrants liked the idea of installing an official national language. They talked about how sad they are that mom or dad or grandma never learned English. They said that they continue to push teir family members to learn. Most thought that if English were made the national language, their relatives would be shoved into learning basic English. They saw this a a very good thing. Granted, the relatives of those classmates might be happy now, but I wonder how much happier they’d be if they could communicate with more people. Personally, I’m pretty pleased that I can understand basic Spanish and read a little German, and German isn’t used nearly as much as Spanish in the U.S. (I think…). The knowledge opened my world up a bit.

The above reasons are, to my mind, why most Americans try to learn a bit of a foreign language if they know they will be traveling to an area where that language is dominant. They’re also the reason many business students from non-English speaking countries learn at least a bit of English. And yes, they’re why Americans who grew up speaking English try and learn Spanish, if they’re going to be dealing with Spanish-speakers regularly.