In theory. But there is no evidence to support it. For example, I’m sure Trump pledged allegiance many times.
I went to the symphony once at their first performance of the season. They led off with “The Star Spangled Banner.” I liked it.
Baseball used to just play the national anthem on opening day, too. I’m not sure when it turned into every game.
It’s still better than that Lee Greenwood “God Bless the USA” song they insist on playing.
Well, yeah, every pledge is a promise, but so is every contract, and we know what Trump thinks of those.
And that’s ultimately the problem with pledges and oaths and the like: those who need them the most are the most likely to disregard them. A person of good character doesn’t need a pledge to get them to do the right thing, and no pledge will compel a person of bad character to do the right thing. I suppose there’s a few people in the squishy middle that might be influenced, though.
And on Sundays they sing God Bless America at the MLB games during hte 7th inning sketch. And the idiots act like it’s some kind of National Anthem and take off their hats and stand up.
That’s nice too!
I think of patriotism - and again, distinctly from nationalism et al - as a general sense of national community. If you get a huge group of Americans together, singing* the Anthem is just a way of acknowledging that community.
But I’ll admit that I need to enforce a specific frame of mind to differentiate patriotism from nationalism in our current sociopolitical climate. I’m no less soured on this stuff than anybody else and I don’t blame anybody who wants to completely excise patriotic displays from public life.
*don’t get me started on what a shit song the anthem is to sing for most people.
Yes and no. If someone refused to make the pledge they wouldn’t be accepted in class. My sifu took that sort of thing seriously. But they could just not be in class anymore if they didn’t want to make the pledge.
No, but evil people can be nice also. The people who are really good at being evil often are. Everyone loved Ted Bundy until they found out he was a serial killer.
Kind of like how self-professed “Christians” often have trouble living up to Christ’s teachings. Hmm… I’m sensing a pattern here…
It sounds stupid but there have been a couple of occasions where someone wanted to get into a physical fight with me and I remembered I promised not to do it.
It shouldn’t have mattered because violence is wrong anyway unless it’s a last resort. But when convincing myself to walk away, it was another thing that I was able to draw on when making that decision. Sometimes it really is helpful. Psychology can be weird, brains are weird.
I don’t want it removed completely from public life, I just don’t want it in all aspects of public life.
Fourth of July, sure, try to hit those high notes. At the Memorial Day parade, have the local high school marching band play it.
But before every single time that a sports competition is about to take place starts getting into jingoism territory, IMO.
If I give someone a gun, it’s reasonable for me to ask them to pledge to use it responsibly, and if they refuse, I don’t give them the gun. They were teaching you techniques you could use to hurt people, and required you pledge that you wouldn’t use them negligently.
For whatever good a pledge does, I have no problem with that.
It’s a whole different matter that someone won’t be accepted in society if they don’t make their daily show of forced patriotism.
But, that’s because the promise you made means something to you. If you just mouthed meaningless words along with the rest of the class, then the promise would be just as meaningless.
Terrific post.
Absolutely. I’m certain there were people in the class who later beat the shit out of people. Get any large group of people together and statistically speaking you’re going to have sone assholes. Even if they aren’t being a problem in class. It’s just a promise you’re making, it’s not a behavioral chip.
Enough already. I call this a hijack – 46 posts and no schadenfreude.
Here’s a little one from earlier today:
To be fair, the overwhelming abundance of schadenfreude given by Pence absolutely bursting the Right’s bubble re: Biden’s documents allowed for a bit of a threadjack. But you’re right- onward and schadenfreudely-ward!
Thank you. I have no problem with the odd hijack, but when I see a large number of new posts in the Schadenfreude thread and think something big has happened, and then find that it’s bickering about pledges and anthems, it’s just … cruel!
If this thread had a skilled chair like the House Judiciary Committee, none of this would have happened.
Way back in 2020, I posted this, in which I coined the term comfort patriotism.
Capitol rioter breaks down crying in court — gets hit with 68-month prison sentence:
Love it.
I heard the voices crying in the wilderness and have brought emergency, late-breaking Schadenfreude for The People: