a pill better than XTC

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Moderator’s Notes: I’m not sure what to do with this thread. Threads discussing drug use are a pretty gray area, but generally acceptable. It’s when a drug thread crosses the line from discussion of experiences using them, to tips and tricks on how to use, or better use them, or to where and how to buy them, that we normally close drug threads. This one hasn’t crossed that line. Yet. There’s also some good information posted up there by TwistofFate. Hopefully, some ignorance will lessened because of it. It’s for that reason that I’m gonna leave this thread here for now.

If the information here helps just one person … yeah, cliched, I know, but, there it is.

Finally, everyone please mind your tempers; don’t let your emotions get the best of ya. Okay? Good. Carry on then.

22

**Yes, we’re all very surprised to learn that young people sometimes do stupid and dangerous things to fit in.

If dangerous substances which cause health problems and make you act stupid should be illegal, why isn’t alcohol at the top of everybody’s list?

I think it’s unhealthy to make your choices because you don’t want to appear to “be an asshole” to other people.

Evidently there a lot of people dying of ecstasy overdoses, and yet I’ve never heard of a single account. Can someone post a link to a published account of a death that was conclusively linked to an overdose of MDA or MDMA?

As for the availability of “pure” ecstasy, I’m not sure I understand. Ecstasy, in tablet form, cannot be composed of MDMA only; various starches and bonding agents are necessary to press pills that won’t crumble. You can get pills with varying concentrations and levels of the different components, including MDMA, but no pill can have MDMA as its sole ingredient. If you mean “pure MDMA,” then you are using a redundant phrase: MDMA is a chemical compound, and if its purity is altered in any way, then it ceases to be MDMA and becomes a wholly seperate (though possibly related) compound. Thus, the active ingredient in all ecstasy is pure MDA or pure MDMA.

Kids aren’t scared of liver failure or kidney failure or even death, especially when they see their friends rolling and having fun.

Just for the record, I think it’s obvious (without the benefit of a study or a cite) to any thinking person under 50 that alcohol is much, much more dangerous and harmful to society than any other drug. That’s why we don’t have Mothers Against Rolling Drivers or Candyflippers Anonymous.

:smiley: ben901 :smiley:

23

Am I the only person who sees the irony in a cat tranquilizer which makes people think they’re the center of the universe?

24

I agree. Alcohol is a very dangerous substance when used improperly. This is why I don’t drink. However, the outlawing of alcohol has already been attempted. Remember a little thing called prohibition? All that it accomplished was a boom in illegal alcohol production, and, with the addition of mob involvement, became even more dangerous than when alcohol was legal. This is different from the outlawing of drugs like ecstasy for two reasons:

  1. Most people can’t create a home-style ecstasy still. Beer can be brewed in the home with much less difficulty than it takes to create XTC under lab conditions. The result? More people make their own booze under prohibition than make their own XTC under today’s laws.
    I think it’s unhealthy to make your choices because you don’t want to appear to “be an asshole” to other people.

  2. Before alcohol was banned, it had already solidly worked itself into mainstream society. This made the banning of it become dangerous, since people had grown accustomed to having it be legal. It’s sad, but having alcohol be legal seems almost necessary, since it’s already been legal for so long. XTC, on the other hand, has not. It’s been outlawed almost since its conception. Therefore, you don’t wind up with a bunch of people pre-programmed to think that it’s an “every day” drug.

Again, I agree. I don’t make decisions based on that. I go into public and make a complete ass of myself for the entertainment of myself and my friends. The only catch? I do it perfectly, stone-cold sober. Scary, but true. I don’t base my decision not to do drugs on whether or not I’ll look like an asshole, I base it on a knowledge of the physical and mental risks involved.

And you’re saying this is a GOOD thing? This is exactly the idea we’re talking about. If kids get to know the facts to the point where they are thinking about more than having a good time, then it’ll be a HUGE success.

Did you completely miss Missy2U’s post? Her son was KILLED because a person rolling on XTC crashed through her house. If that’s not an example of someone dying directly due to XTC, I don’t know what is. Unless you only mean overdoses. In which case I refer you to romanticide’s own words:

“Take too much, you die…”----I rest my case.

Anyway, that’s my view on it. Oh, yeah, and for further reference, try not to bold your entire post for no apparent reason. It gets really annoying.

25

LOL!

Ben, I meant sans inclusion of other drugs. I was talking about all the tablets out there being sold as e that actually are something different, like PMA or just straight meth. Or e mixed with said drugs.

Dave, I have no intention of going to jail. I know and trust the person I get it from, and that’s the ONLY person I ever get it from. I’m never publicly intoxicated, so to speak, and I never take them at raves (but once)for that very reason. Usually three or four of my closest friends (whom I’ve known since long before we started) will get together at one of our abodes and do it there about once a month, sometimes less. We ALWAYS have someone sober with us who can keep an eye on us and make sure we don’t do anything stupid. Also drive us around if need be and make sure we don’t make idiots of ourselves around other people. It’s also very easy to pull yourself out of an E high enough to funtion properly if need be. You’re still feeling good, but you can talk properly and think clearly and all the sensations are gone.

TwistofFate,
I am now genuinely concerned for the friends of mine that indulge in E on a very regular basis. I will pass on the information and hope they either slow down or at least go and make sure things are still working as they should be.

26

Jester,

Um . . . I could be wrong, but I read Missy2U’s post as meaning that she took action to prevent her son from being in danger, rather than that he was actually killed.

27

Ok, I’ve done my fair share of drugs, including E. But, this and this is what doing too much E will do to you. Who cares about the legal or health implications? Do you really want to end up looking like those losers?
As for Special K (Isn’t the name warning enough? Duuurrr!) I make it a policy not to use any drug that is mainly used as a tranquilizer for farm animals.
These drugs are mainly rave/dance drugs. The only thing worse than ravers are goths, and the only thing worse than goths are people who use props when they’re dancing…

So remember kids, unless you want to be a glow-stik wielding, pacifier-nibbling moron, stay away from the E!

28

maybe some people don’t think liver nercrosis is actual damage? <shrug>

all i know is that i always have an urge on weekends to find dealers and beat them up. i’ve had a lot of friends have a lot of bad things happen to them because of various drugs, and it really kind of bugs me when people try to defend drug use in any way.
but i’m ranting and the pit is already opening its maw to eat this thread…

29

Back in the day, beginning about 6 years ago, and for a period of about 2 years, I was “hardcore”. Did anything I could get my hands on. I didn’t do it to piss off my parents. I didn’t do it because I wanted people to think I was cool. I did it because I wanted the experience…I wanted to know about all of these things, just so I would know. Some things I enjoyed and did more than once…some I diliked and never did again. But I’ll never regret it. I enjoyed all the times I had. Today, I’m hooked on Nicotine, smoke a little weed to relax ofter work sometimes, and drink only when the band’s playing at a local bar. And that’s about it. However, reading this reminded me…:

…this is exactly how we did it. We never left the house when safety was in doubt…or we had a “babysitter” with us.

But isn’t all this the same with alcohol? Alcohol causes liver damage too, right? And I’d make the bet all day long that there are more fatal car crashes due to alcohol that ALL other drugs combined! So, we see alot of commercials now about being “designated drivers” from the beer companies.

So, why do we prohibit drugs? I feel the ban on marijuana is WAY out of line, and we need true education about it. By far, it’s the safest drug out there…even safer than cigarettes! And has anyone ever heard of a pot-related death? And I’m not talking about dealers shooting users, etc…because that’s not pot-related, that’s only because it’s illegal. If it were legal, they’d be sold like cigarettes at convenience stores and there’d be no reason for dealers…but I digress…

However, “hard” drugs is where things get a little sketchy…because some of them cause real problems, especially with no supervision.

But is that all for us to decide? …or worse yet, for people who’ve never even experienced any drugs to decide?! I’m not saying let a pot-head be president…but let the people make our own decisions…good or bad, it all seems like another form of natural selection to me.

Before I finish off, I would like to say I’m very sorry for all those of you who have lost someone due to drugs. Fortunately, as much as I was around them, I’ve never seen a problem, but I know they happen. I hope no one is offended by anything I’ve said here, if so, I’m sorry you don’t agree with my opinions…

So, to finish off my rant, a fine Presidential quote:

**“Prohibition…goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man’s appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.”

– Abraham Lincoln, December, 1840**

Thank you…

-Rick
JerkWaterJive

30

Ok, reading the OP again…looks like I took a linear tangent that really wasn’t expected :smiley: …but I still feel my opinions are important to this conversation and anyone else who ins’t quite as “experienced” as some of us… :wink:

31

I’m not sure why you keep mentioning this because it’s kind of pointless. Everything is toxic at some point. The thing that is worth noting is the ratio of “E” to produce the desired effect : vs. the lethal dose. The ratio is pretty small, triple or quadruple the amount it takes to get you “rolling” and you’re having seizures on the way to heaven’s gate. Another drug that has a similar ratio is Heroin and people Od on that all the time. Anyways, taking it once a month or less in proper dosage isn’t likely to hurt you. As long as you give your brain time for repairing. If you fu*k your receptors too often you can easily adjust your brain’s “wiring” by burning out and scarring your serotonin receptors. So if you’re gonna do it–be careful, don’t do it often, make sure you have nothing to do, are in a comfortable place, and drink plenty of water. As 4 me, I don’t bother with the stuff.

Ketamine, while being a veternary tranquilizer is also sometimes prescribed for certain cases of severe back pain IIRC. It’s at most pharmacies. Anyways, it’s structurally related to PCP and produces “similar” effects to it, you can think of it like a “safe PCP.” From my experiences in the past with it, it basically puts you in a somewhat-euphoric stupor-like-state. Not as exciting as it sounds.

well I gotta go to dinner…

32

I’m starting to feel really old.

What the hell is ‘rolling’?

33

FTR, I’m a young person. Drugs run rampant at my school. my friends and I actually make jokes that the hallways smell like Cologne and Weed. I have never tried any drug. I admit though, one or two of my acquaintences have smoked, or dranked a drug- but not because other friends were, because they wanted to. you see, People don’t do drugs because it is “the thing to do”, they do it because it Gets you high!

just thought I’d share, not that it helps anything, or makes it right.

34

Perhaps Cyndar will back me up, but I’m pretty sure that Ketalar (the market name for Ketamine Hydrochloride) is most commonly used on horses and livestock because of it’s power. I think a 6 lb cat would be too easily overdosed. For Ketalar, anaesthetic dose is achieved with 1mg/lb intramuscularly, and 3-4 mg/lb orally and rectally.

Gleamed from memory and Erodwid

–Tim

35

Also, I would like to make a plea.

The debate on drug legalization and usage is no different from a debate on anything else. Emotional pleas (ad populum) have no place in debate. “Will someone please think of the children?!” is not a valid argument. (I’m not attempting to single you out, Missy2U. It’s a very common argument.)

I, personally, have not done E, Special K, or acid, but, after doing my research, educating myself to the risks and wagers involved, and a bit of critical thinking, have decided that the possible experiences are far outweighed. Even if I do it but only one time, that is fine. I do not want to miss out on something from fear or ignorance.

Certain drugs, I believe, are off-limits, for society as a whole (very few, if any) or me personally (intraveneous drugs, cocaine, heroin, their ilk). But the majority of ‘recreational’ drugs, such as marijuana, psylocibin, lsd, mdma, ketamine hydrochloride, are either non-harmful, non-lethal, and non-physically addictive and mildly or non-psychologically addictive, and should be available to educated, intelligent adults who have chosen to partake in such. No human - man, woman, politician, preacher, judge, or president - has the right to tell you or I what we can and cannot consume once we reach adulthood. I can make my own decisions. So can you.

Please, educate yourself. Do not live in ignorance, to not act in ignorance, do not speak in ignorance.

When I was in High School, I went to a very backwater school, full of very ignorant people. Only the ‘losers’ did ‘weed’, and that was as far as it got, no one even knew how to get anything more than that, much less what it was or did. I looked down upon those people who wanted to ‘wreck their lives’ with drugs. I believed drugs were horrible things.

As I aged, came to college, and began to mature and educate myself, I came to a realization that people who do drugs are just… people. Nothing about a ‘drug’ makes it intrinsically wrong. It’s all in the way it’s handled. Some handle drugs poorly, and become addicted. Some handle them well, and turn out like the people on this board.

And yes, some die. But everyone dies of something. Even cheese, pepsi, TV, and music. Nothing is safe, nothing ever will be safe. It is estimated that 1 out of 10 persons on the road is, in some way, dangerously impaired. It could be infirmity of age, loss of vision, physical handicap, drunkenness, illegal drug impairment, prescription drug impairment, even cold medicine impairment.

I, personally, do not believe that drug abuse would rise if such things were legalized, in fact, evidence points towards it’s lessening. I do not believe that the accident/death rate would increase, either. Nay, I believe it would again decrease, if it changed at all.

“When I was a child, I acted in the way of a child…”

Thank you.

–Tim

36

Why do people want to experience these artificial highs? What the hell is wrong with someone that they feel this is what they need to be happy?

That’s the saddest part of it all. Happiness should be natural, not artificial.

37

I wasn’t trying to get any. i just heard about it and was curious. I heard that it was 10 times as lethal as ecstacy could be. I’ve tried XTC before and liked it, but it’s not a regular thing. thanks for all the info–I know what not to do now.

38

Drugs are stupid.

39

Sometimes the most meaningful posts are the simplest. Thanks, stifferd!

40

One of the biggest dangers of E is made clear by this article from the 11/1 issue of JAMA.

This describes a study in which ecstasy pills gathered at dance clubs throughout the US were analyzed. Out of 107 pills, only 67 contained any MDMA (or MDMA analogue) at all. 31 contained identifiable drugs, but no MDMA–usually dextromethorphan, caffeine, pseudoephedrine, and salicylates. Nine contained no identifiable drug at all.

In other words, it’s hard to know what you’re getting when you buy ecstasy. I have a very neutral attitude toward drug users in general–hey, if that’s your thing, knock yourself out, just don’t take anybody with you. In my opinion, though, people who buy E from people they don’t know in dance clubs or at concerts (where I saw it happen a lot this summer, unfortunately) are idiots.

A quick scan of some MEDLINE abstracts leads me to think that bad reactions to E are not consistent and not terribly common, but can be serious and are unpredictable. One of the review articles said that such reactions are seldom the result of actual overdoses. It probably has more to do with differences in the pills themselves (impurities, bad combinations of drugs) and in body chemistry (the aforementioned CYP2D6). Long-term effects are suggested, but are even harder to pin down.

Just out of my own curiosity, how much does E usually go for? (Mods, if that info is deemed uncool, I apologize in advance.)

Dr. J