The main connexion between these questions is that they both occurred to me in the same morning.
First the horse question. If you were restraining an equine creature with no regard for its comfort, but nonetheless did not wish to permanently disable it, where would be the best place to chain its legs? I know the basic anatomical terms for a horse’s legs; the part below the knee and above the hoof is called the cannon, and it seems the most natural place. But I wonder if I’m overlooking something.
Assume for the sake of this question that the equine in question is intelligent and torn between escaping from captivity if possible and kicking its guards to death if not. Also assume that neither hamstringing nor drugging the horse is an option.
Second question: Anybody know the proper name for the business end of a whip? I refer, of course, to the leather strips or bands that are used to administer the punishment. The only terms I can think of are tongue and tail, but neither of those seems quite right.
Thanks in advance.
“Fairy tales do not give the child his first idea of bogey … The baby has known the dragon intimately ever since he had an imagination. What the fairy tale provides for him is a St. George to kill the dragon.”
I depends on the circumstances of the restraint. For example, if the horse needs to hold still just for a minute (as in to give a shot, a handler normally just holds up a front leg. Or, using a basic pulley system, holds the head up high while the horse stands in a “straight stall” (a chute-type stall where the horse does not have room to turn around.) To really put power into a kick, the horse needs to get its head down. Plus with its head up, the weight is rocked back to the hind legs making kicking difficult.
If the horse needs to be completely physically restrained you would put it in something called a “stock” - its a chute that compresses around the horse and keeps it completely still. I’ve seen an interesting one used to trim hooves on feral horses taken in for BLM adoption. The stock closes and then turns on its side exposing the feet to the farrier.
To be clear, horses only kick with deadly force with their hind legs. The hind legs don’t have knees (well they do, but they are located up against the torso). The hind joint, called the “hock” is actually the ankle bone - as is the front joint which though called the “knee” is actually the wrist. At any rate, because horse’s legs are fragile and VERY difficult to repair, people avoid restrains that might damage them. Restrainting about the hind legs is, in general, rare, because it is just too easy for them to damage themselves. Hobbles are only used on horses specifically trained to accept them. You would never ever ever hobble a rogue/aggressive/wild horse. So the simple answer to “where would you chain a horses legs” is, “you would not do that.”
The “lash” would be right term for a whip that has a long, flexible business end (like a bullwhip or a lunge whip or a carriage whip). However, the little nubbin on the end of a riding crop – which is made of a flexible stick with only an inch or two of leather at the end - is usually called the “popper.”
stupid edit window. I just thought of something -
An exception would be so-called “breeding hobbles” these restrain the mare from kicking at a Stallion. In the balance, the stallion is more valuable, and the mare won’t lose any value if she sustains a mild to moderate leg injury. You can see them here with an explanation of their use. As you will see, they attach around the hocks.
Again, the mare would be trained in the use of these restraints - you would not use this device on an untrained horse. Hell you wouldn’t even be able to get it on an untrained horse.
There is also a wrong assumption here. A horse does not “choose” between fight or flight. A horse is a prey animal that will ALWAYS run from danger if it can. Only if cornered will it turn and fight, and then it will fight with the goal of getting free, not of destroying its opponent. So, in getting away a horse will usually just run you over if you are between it and freedom. To kick you it would have to turn around the opposite way that it wants to go, and that would be contrary to its immediate goal. Finally, a horse will not kick you to death for the hell of it. As soon as it can run, it will run.
It’s not an actual horse. This is in reference to my fantasy novel. It’s a Kentauride (female centaur) whom the viewpoint character sees after both of them have been captured and are on their way to be sold into slavery. Knowing this, the Kentauride is in a bad mood and looking to kick someone’s ass given the slightest opportunity.
She only appears in one scene. I obsess about really small things.
Breeding hobbles. (see link above). Thanks for the clarification though, I was trying to figure out some state of facts that would match the question and having a hard time.
Tis my own fault for asking two questions in one OP; I just didn’t like the idea of opening two threads in the same forum at once. But the whip’s not intended for the horse; it’s intended for the viewpoint character. I just wanted a way to differentiate the handle of the whip from the lash, and was brain-farting on the latter word.
Skald the Rhymer: Bringing you needlessly confusing OPs since 2003.
Skald, if the whip is being referred to by the narrator, any of the terms thrown out so far are fine. If it’s in dialog, then “tip” is a very common term for the part that makes the snapping sound, too.
As for the horse, it’s almost impossible to restrain an agitated, frightened, or angry horse using chains without the potential of badly hurting the horse. I’m not sure how this would map to your centaur, but a very typical method would be some manner of halter or headgear that is tied to anchors on both sides of a gate or enclosure. Vets have a variety of methods for restraining horses, but the stock mentioned earlier would be the safest and strongest, and you should be able to map that to a fantasy setting pretty easily.
I suppose, though, that since you’re dealing with an intelligent centaur rather than a horse, you could just go with the leg chains (I’d mount them below the cannon), as it’s not as likely to knowingly damage itself.
Not so. A trainer I used to work with was almost killed when a horse she was working with backed into a barbed-wire fence and panicked. She (the trainer) had to be hospitalized after being kicked in the face by a front hoof.
A bit closer to home, I was attempting to restrain a wild horse, which reared up and lashed out with the front hooves. One of the fellows I was working with caught a hoof on the forehead and was out with a concussion for a while.
Horse, maybe, but a Kentauride would be easier. Human intelligence = knowledge of death, ability to recognize technology as a threat, ability to make rational choices. There’s the equivalent of guns in this world, so I’m sure the conversation went something like
KENTAURIDE: Get your hands off me! I’m not letting you assholes chain me!
VILLAIN: Would you rather we shot you in the knees so you collapse, then gut-shoot you, and leave you on the floor to slowly bleed to death in front of the other prisoners to encourage them to comply without argument? Because we can do that too.
KENTAURIDE: (grumbles) Fine.
But I really appreciate the information y’all have provided, especially the info on breeding hobbles. I’m filing that under “things go use someday in a story with a different emphasis.”
And, in fact, I just remembered that I have notes somewhere for a different fantasy story, set in a mythological milieu, in which a breeding hobble could easily come into play. so it’s all good.
Lash works, so does tail (as in single-tail bullwhip).
If you’re talking about something like a flogger or cat’o’nine with multiple lashes, they are frequently referred to as falls: “a flogger made with 30 falls is more expensive than one with 26.” I’ve never heard fall used in reference to a single-tail whip, however, and I usually don’t hear tails in reference to a flogger with multiple falls.
The end of those whips is also called a popper or a cracker, usually a piece of nylon cord attached to the terminal strand of leather usually called the fall. The fall is usually a separate strand of leather tied to the body of the whip, most often called the thong.
Yes. But that is rearing and plunging which are different from kicking, A horse cannot kick while standing on all 4 in a way likely to do serious damage; serious power must originate in the hindquarter, as in by leaping forward or rearing. “Striking out” and “pawing” (kicking the front legs while standing) are obnoxious, annoying habits, not potentially lethal ones. The front leg just isn’t a coiled spring the way the back leg is.
You might benefit from reading DB Story’s Encounters series of tales. Note that the tales themselves are generally text porn, but the linked page is the index page and so the two-click rule is obeyed.
Assuming it was me, I’ve gotten my answer about the horse binding, anyway.
Though I wonder…COULD the Kantauride have killed the villains in this story with her front hooves?
It doesn’t really matter, as she appears for a grand total of 2 pages in the story and has exactly 4 lines of dialogue. But you never know when you’re going to fall thru a inter-universal portal, and if I’m ever in Narnia I want to know how afraid to be of the Kentaurs.
It looks like your question has been thoroughly answered. I would only add that the business end of whip is generally called the tip of the whip. It’s a pretty generic term, but I don’t know of any equivalent to “popper” for whips generally.
A casting harness or casting hobble is used in situations where a horse needs to be restrained and drugs are not available or not to be used. It consists of a neck loop which goes down over the point of the shoulder, to which is attached two lines, each leading to a hobble placed on the rear pasterns. If the horse lashes out, the horse falls down. Whereupon the hobbles are tightened up to restrain the hind leg (one or both, usually the top one) up near the belly to prevent the horse injuring itself.
These are used to cause a horse to fall usually, but in the scenario you describe I would use a slightly modified casting harness.
Yes, she could kill with her front hooves. War horses have been trained to kill in battle at various times in various cultures, usually using front hooves (sometimes armed with various hardware designed for the purpose).
