A question about "Ricers"

In My Humble Opinion
1

Okay, an admittedly old time muscle car fan here. Staunch believer in the displacement = power camp and, as a result, never had much use (read “respect”) for the newer generation of over-revved little cars generally referred to as “rice grinders.” All I ever see is what I interpret to be little wannabes, modified exhaust, rear spoiler, maybe some modifications under the hood but overall seeming to strain mightly at the concept of acceleration when the rest of us are doing so relatively effortlessly. Plus, evidence of a wreck is apparently mandatory. Sorry, but in large part I’ve found them to be a joke.

This morning, one struck me as the real deal and I’m curious if anyone could shed some light on what he might have been employing, whether it was tuning, nitrous, etc.

On the way in to work there’s a long, uncluttered, straight stretch for a couple of miles that’s kinda fun to run on. Turning onto it behind a nondescript, identification removed, somewhat Celica-looking but otherwise unrecognizable car, I opened up the ports and took off. My ute’s been feeling somewhat frisky lately and with 340 horse, 0 to 60 in 7 and a 150 top it’s no legend but absolutely will get up and go.

Looking in the rear mirror, I started to move to the right lane after passing that non-descript, we were probably accelerating through 60 mph or so at the time and, quite frankly, I was kinda stunned by what I saw. The car I’d just blown by was going… umm… sideways. There was a huge plume of smoke behind him, he’d swung violently to the left, and all of a sudden he shot past me as I was then doing 85 or 90 like I was riding some lame beast of burden.

So… consider me re-informed. Some of those little “ricers”, although probably a very rare few, can run like a freakin’ scalded pig. What I don’t understand is this was a small car so the engine was constricted to a smaller size, he hadn’t dropped a 400 or anything in there. I know when he passed I heard no engine whine, more just the baffeled single exhaust. Was it tuning? If so, thru computing? Turbocharging? Supercharging? Nitrous? Something else?

I’m just really curious because this was the one and only time I’ve seen one of these little things do something bordering on impressive, and this little sonuvagun did rocket forth on demand. Sorry I can’t provide more details about the make. Though a car buff, this was unrecognizable and struck me as something between early 90s styling Mustang/Celica mix, but was determinable as neither.

The damn thing could, though, run. Smokin’ the tires at 60 to the point where you damn near go horizontal took something special indeed.

2

I traditionally harboured the same biases as you. I loved me my big 70s V8 “Aussie metal” as opposed to those highly-strung, buzzy, little Japanese things. But I’ve come to the painful realisation that I was in the wrong camp. The ricers have overtaken us in many ways. My “Oh, the high revs of that little motor are going to kill that car” turns out wrong when my friend’s 1990 Corolla with 200k on the clock can kill a muscle car off the line. That little car was a sported up Corolla, I’ll grant you, but there was no nitrous or other tricks. No turbo, no nuthin’. Just a good, fast little car. And that one is now 17 years old. The newer ones are that much better. Time marches on.

3

I only have a 1.3 liter engine. I think you have a 911, correct? Wanna race? :smiley:

You definitely need to get over the whole power=displacement idea. Forced induction changes the whole game, as does very high revs. Without knowing what kind of car you saw, it’s hard to tell what it had. Was it maybe a Mk III Supra? http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/6/60/Supramk3.jpg

I have quite a few friends with Mk IV Supras (187 cubic inches of fury!) who are running over 700hp on the street. I’m getting 0-60 somewhere in the low 4s and 1/4 mile times in the mid-13s - mainly due to my crappy driving - out of 1.3l. A buddy of mine runs 10s in his Honda Civic hatchback. All of this is at 6000 ft above sea level.

I have a video of an Australian WRX (2L) running an 8.98.

Plus, keep in mind that while old muscle cars were built to make power, a lot of the current crop of “ricer” cars were designed for fuel economy, reliability and quietness. Start uncorking them, and they can actually get pretty quick.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of them are very light. You don’t need a ton of power to get light cars to go fast (see: Lotus Elise).

I can answer probably any questions you have about “ricer” cars and “ricer” culture, so ask away. But keep in mind that for every ten Cavaliers with fart cans and neons, there is one true power monster out there that will eat your lunch.

4

THAT WAS YOU???
It was a modified civic… I’m in a club :slight_smile:

Just kidding. I’m an old school Cuda guy myself, and I often wonder about these too fast too furious little nuggets of cocaine running around the streets these days. When the wife and I lived in Phoenix, there was a down right problem with street racing, and from what you describe, I don’t doubt a word of what you said.

As to your OP, I’d say it’s little engine was not valved to shit, and probably had a nitris kit installed. Otherwise, no amount of tuning and computing would make a little guy like you describe go sideways whilst doing 60. When I was a kid we used to love putting wheelie bars on our rides, even if they had no use what-so-ever. I doubt the kids today even know what wheelie bars are…

5

What? You have no idea what blew past him. There is no reason some little Japanese cars would not be able to break traction at 60 mph.

Here, for your watching enjoyment. Buschur Racing EVO (four door economy car…well, sorta :wink: ) vs. new Corvette Z06: http://dsmvideo.vidiac.com/video/14122cbd-96fc-4fbb-863e-98a100a3ef25.htm

6

My friend’s Toyota mentioned above was pretty damned tiny. A hatchback. To me, it always seemed on the very edge of tyre grip. The secret to that car was wonderfully late gear changes because the torque band was so generous in the thing. On a burn out of the traffic lights, I’d leave it having orgasms in first gear right up to about 35-40mph, and it would never protest. There was always acceleration to spare. The thing was tuned right enough, but no special tricks.

7

WOW! I did not know that.

8

Top of the line Subaru WRX will flat out leave most Vettes and even a Mustang Cobra GT or better standing at a light.

That was therapy for me to say that, because I am a 39 y/o muscle car kinda guy.

MOST rice BURNERS are all show and no go. They are peppy, but off-the-shelf, you can’t compare them to muscle cars. Muscle cars were hot off the shelf and took zero brain power to make lethal. A rice burner CAN be whicked (WRX) but lost likely is peppy. ALOT of work will make them special, but the effort involved is MUCH more involved.

Muscle cars rolled off assembly lines and were more like, er…muscle cars from step one. While there are rice burners that roll off assembly lines ready to mix it up, most rice burners are not ready to play in the top 5% of performance found on the streets now.

But don’t disrespect some very well engineered modern rice burners. Alot of casual cars like Infinitis and Lexi :slight_smile: are running 300 HP plus through six speed gearboxes with traction control. All would make quick work of traditional muscle cars. These cars are not usually referred to as rice burners. Rice burners are 165 Hondas that someone ratcheted up to 210 at great cost.

9

I’m not well up on cars myself, but here in the UK, ‘Top Gear’ recently featured the Bugatti Veyron:

Over 1000hp and they drove it on Volkswagens test track at 407kph (252mph?).

:eek: :cool:

10

I’m glad you got your therapy in, but you’re incorrect. Late model Vettes and Cobras have upwards of 400HP. I think the Z06 Vette even has 505 or something ludicrous like that. The best Subaru WRX STi you can buy off the lot has just over 300HP. While it might be smaller and lighter, that in no way makes up for the 200 HP difference.

11

I’m with the “family Porsche” now, Cayenne S, until the kid goes to college. Had I a 911 turbo I’d have defended it’s honor. As it was, I just moved the hell out of the way.

You may have made a good call with the Supra mention. I investigated further with that hint and think maybe an mid 80s MkII may have been the vehicle. Never saw the front, I was first behind him and then he was sideways but the tail, wide w/ horizontal lines, looks right.

“700 horse”? Good freakin’ grief.

12
  1. I’m pretty sure the Z06 Corvette is a huge leap forward in terms of performance, compared to previous generations of Corvette. It’s also $70,000 odd dollars.

The STi is all wheel drive and turbocharged. These things are desgined only to get from point A to B in the shortest time possible, I doubt there’s anything on the market you can buy that will be faster in real world driving than a homologation WRC race car.

lieu, did the car look like this one?

13

The addition of a Corvette engine is a popular “modification” for Necros’ RX-7.

14

No, I’m thinkin’ Necros got it w/ the Supra. Some 80s model, all identification removed.

Still, sideways at 60 w/o nitrous? That’s pretty amazing.

One more thing… the huge cloud of smoke… would that indicate nitrous, worn valves or just a massive influx of fuel?

15

Yeah, most Vettes are not Z06’s and at least one mag showed the WRX outgunning the Cobra, as the lack of traction control, fewer gears and rear-wheel drive spelled doom: it lost to the WRX in accel tests.

Most Cobras and Vettes sold recently will lose to the top of the line WRX that was produced.

Sorry; lots of gears, 4wd, lighter wieght and some traction control are much more effective than just throwing more torque and HP than the rear wheels can handle.

16

I’m not a mechanic by any means, but white smoke, would signal warn valves to me. Another will be along to give the difinitive truth.

17

White spoke could be blow by…could be head gasket trouble, which is common on hopped up turbo charged cars that have more than stock boost ( a common hot rooding move), and which might have been run at higher than normal temps. Alum heads and blocks deform and or the head gaskets are not up to the task.

18

Heh. Here’s some dyno numbers of buddies:
http://forums.coloradoracing.net/index.php?showtopic=64386
Lotsa 700+ Supras. Of course, the top number (1111.2 hp) is still a Mustang, albeit a TT one.

Dunno if the guy you ran had nitrous or not. If it was a MK II, it’s very possible. MK III might have just had a whopping big upgraded turbo, and maybe more work, on the 7MGTE. Who knows? Lots of crazy stuff going on in the Supra community. Big plume of smoke usually means a massive fuel dump. I know when I punch it, I dump copious amounts of it out my tailpipe. Like, vision-obscuring amounts. Then again, I drive a rotary. :slight_smile:

Oh, and upon preview, lieu just said smoke, not necessarily white smoke…

19

BTW, maybe we’ll get Unintentionally Blank in here. He and I ran each other at Bandimere last summer.

Supercharged C5 Vette vs. 1994 Mazda RX7 (full exhaust, standalone). We were neck and neck.

20

Well, the aforementioned Z06 and several other european cars can beat it, albeit at twice the price. Or are you arguing that they can’t beat it in everyday driving? I’d need to see a cite for that.