Are pac boots warmer than regular boots with equal amount of insulation or are they the same?
I have a regular pair of Rocky’s with 400 g of thinsulate but working outside, feet still get cold. Considering a pair of PAC’s but most in local stores are usually 200 grams.
may I tag on? I am considering a new pair because my feet are ALWAYS cold in winter. Right now I have a pair of calf-high Chacos, which I wear with wool socks. They were replacements for my previous pair, whcih were Uggs, which are the warmest winter boots I remember having. I would like something super-warm, with removable insoles to make room for prescription orthotics (which many Uggs don’t do). No heels, but preferably something that doesn’t look like I’m about to go on a Polar expedition. Any feedback would be welcome re: brands, styles, insulation types, etc. Rubber soles and cushioning and support are all good for my gimpy ankle. I’d rather not spend $200 or whatever, but if they make my feet happy, I just might.
The answer is Sorel Boots. They’ve gone upscale on design, but these things are WARM.
Doesn’t “Pac boot” just mean the style? Like “duck boot”? It doesn’t refer to how warm any particular boot is.
Pac boots are designed for sitting still, not for activity, and don’t deal well with sweat. The removable liner can be convenient because it can be taken out and fully dried between wearings. However, with modern Gore-tex boots your feet wouldn’t get soaked with sweat to begin with. Plus, I don’t care for the fully rubberized foot, I think it transmits the cold, and, obviously, doesn’t breathe at all. So I’de say on the whole PAC style boots are colder if you’re using them for something more sweat-producing than ice fishing.
I had a pair of PAC-style riding boots and they were great for wearing an hour at a time while riding but as soon as they got wet with sweat inside it was game over.
You say you are using boots with 400g insulation and your feet are still cold. Are your boots properly fitting, which is to say, roomy, especially in the toe box? What kind of socks are you wearing? What kind of activity are you doing in your boots (continuous, none, intermittent?). What temperatures are you in?
removable liners is a must.
any insulation wears out.
your feet will sweat and get the insulation damp which becomes less effective. you want to remove the insulation and dry as needed. having two or more sets of liners is needed for work (stay in for hours) boots.
I have a pair of these Timberland waterproof boots. Paired with wool socks, I can walk for miles in the snow; they’re my go-to dog-walking boots. No mention of Thinsulate but my feet stay warm. Not cheap (or particularly pretty) but I’ve had them for about ten years and have walked hundreds of miles in them so far.
Whatever you get, it has to be waterproof as well as warm. Warm boots (such as regular Uggs) aren’t much good if your feet get wet.
I was referring to waterproof leather PAC boots. Not the rubber ones. Perhaps something similar to this but with less insulation, I don’t think I need 2000 gram but my coworker has 1000 gram regular work boots and he said his feet was cold last week. That’s why I was curious if the Pac liners would be any warmer or if they are the same.
Sounds ideal but where do you get more liners?
My favorites so far have been an older version of [URL=“Amazon.com | UGG Womens Brooks | Shoes”]these.](http://shop.timberland.com/product/index.jsp?productId=33255946) With a bit of silicon waterproofing, I have no leakage issues. But the soles are wearing out and don’t have enough cushioning any more.
I imagine most decent manufacturers sell replacements. Sorel does, for example.
Just a couple pieces of general advice:
- If your feet are cold, put on a hat. When your body starts to get cold, it prioritizes what to keep warm, and it knows it can’t let the brain get cold, but toes are expendable. So super-insulated boots won’t help if you’re not well covered elsewhere. Frankly, above, say, 10 degrees F, as long as your core is warm, wool socks and leather boots should be fine.
- Make sure there’s enough room in your boot for your feet and the socks you’ll wear. If you wear socks that are too thick, your feet will get squeezed, reducing blood flow and making them colder.
If your question is whether a felted wool insert is warmer than an equivalent weight of modern synthetic insulation (Thinsulate, Heatseeker, etc), the answer is no.
Almost every synthetic insulating fabric, even just cheapass polarfleece, is warmer for the weight.
Sorel Boots are the choice for Iditarod mushers, snowmachiners, snowshoers, and winter hikers in Alaska (or even people who just have to wait for the bus in Fairbanks). Trust me on this; it killed me to give mine up when I left there. Just as a side note: mittens are for cold, gloves are for driving.
stores that sell the boots will sell the liners.
I’m just a Chicago public transit commuter and errand-runner. Any idea whether Sorels will work with prescription orthotics? It looks like the liners generally go around the whole foot, and I’ve never had any luck with shoes where I leave in a removable insole and use it together with the orthotics.
ETA: I have spent my whole life in cold- weather climates and always wear a hat, mittens, down coat, etc. in appropriate weather. But even if I do, once it gets below a certain point my feet are still cold. Even once I get onto the heated train or into the heated car, and even if the rest of my body feels warm. I think I just have crappy circulation in my feet.
with a boot like Sorels the liner is thick and you size the boot to be roomy, that it leaves room for multiple socks and not restrict circulation.
so i dunno if orthotics would work.
Couldn’t say, as I didn’t use orthotics then. They’re very cushy and comfortable, however. And yes, the insulation goes around the whole foot and ankle. Sorel might offer Thinsulate liners by now, but you’d have to check their website. If they won’t work for you because of the liners, try a normal fleece-lined boot and use toe warmers. My brother used to swear by them as his circulation got worse from diabetes.
*update. Bought a cheap $80 pair of PAC’s with 200 gram thinsulate liner and within 10 minutes in the snow and ice, I had copious amounts of condensation under the liner which would have absorbed through if I wore them much longer, likely drenching my feet.
Glad I didn’t wear them to work but I guess that answers my own question. It appears having that air barrier between liner and exterior only serves to increase condensation. I didn’t put much thought into that before.
No that wasn’t quite my question at all but historically in regards with socks working outdoors for 17 years, I found Marino wool to be superior to synthetics.
You see with synthetics, they transport moisture between hydrophilic fibers to the exterior to evaporate. This requires sweat to condense before it is moved through the fabric…which isn’t good. I have no shortage of warm and very expensive socks but I find the 80-100% wools to keep my feet dry of sweat. The synthetics always made them sweat and Fleece is the worst as it tends to hold the moisture in…but that’s my experience and therefore my opinion, you may have your own.
However most work boot manufacturers tend to use 3M Thinsulate, which is what I was comparing (thinsulate liners vs thinsulate non liner boots) and Sorel’s doesn’t make work boots, at least none that would endure the ground hazards of construction sites.
Yes, wool socks are the shiznit for all the next-to-skin properties you describe, but as an insulation, wool is so much heavier than the other options, you can’t get enough into a boot to make it comparably warm.
As I said, synthetics are warmer for the weight. That doesn’t make them the best choice in every application.
Also, if your feet sweat in the boots during activity, they can get colder when you stop. Years ago I went up into the Alaskan Range in winter for a week. 30 to 40 below zero. My feet were great. I used a wicking liner and wool socks. We all used Baffin Boots. None of us had cold feet. One guy actually used antiperspirant on his feet to prevent them from sweating. He thinks it worked. I didn’t and didn’t have a problem. If I remember correctly, there was a footpad that raised your foot off the bottom of the boot. This had two advantages. 1) it created a layer of warm air to insulate for the bottom of the boot that was in the snow. The other is that it gave perspiration a place to gather. We were surprised that the bottom of the boot would be wet at the end of the day.