I didn’t take it that way at all. It was very clear to me what Ambi meant.
No one fucking cares.
I’ve only known a very small handful of transgendered people and most of them not well enough to ask but my understanding is that sexual attraction generally remains the same. So, a straight man will become a gay woman (apologies if I messed up terminology here).
One of my step-sisters is m->f transgendered. I actually don’t know her very well and she’s an incredibly private person. She spent the weekend at my house about a year and half ago which was the first time I had seen her in over twenty years. She was, at the time, where Jenner was during the Barbara Walters interview. That is, having lived as a woman for over a year and not yet the final operation. It’s one hell of a lot to go through and she wasn’t even thinking about dating yet. She supposed that she would date women when the time came but didn’t know for sure.
I can imagine most TS would dread the thought of that first encounter. When is it time to tell the other person your history? Will they accept you as a male/female, or turn and run? This is yet another difficult step in an already difficult journey.
I totally agree. As pro-transgender rights as I am, I don’t think that I’d become intimate with a transgendered woman. I’ve seen a few profiles for transgenedered women on dating profiles. They will list themselves as a woman (no problem there) but specify their status in their profile. I had one woman write to me a few years back when I was on OKCupid. There was no mention in her profile but she did tell me in the first communication.
Bruce was, so I assume Caitlyn is as well, a person with a sense of humor, a fairly laid back personality, and seems to be quite caring. I think for a woman who has only recently come out fully as transgendered, she’s attractive, and will only improve as she becomes more accustomed to dressing, and styling herself as a woman.
I’m still trying to wrap my brain around where you could have gotten the idea that Jenner is only attracted to straight women.
To women, yes. But either this reveals a presumption that you can tell a lesbian / bisexual woman just by looking (you can’t), or that no lesbians / bisexual women choose to conform to mainstream beauty standards (also not true), or, I dunno, you’re saying something about lesbians / bisexual women all being universally unattractive or not-straight-looking or some damn thing; or, for some reason you think that Cait would get turned off by discovering that the woman she was crushing on liked her back. Bwuh?
Um, I am suggesting no such thing. You are reading waaaay too much into my words. My bolding above shows that I presumed her to be attracted to the same types of women that she has always been attracted to; namely women who were attracted to her former, macho male identity. These women tend to be straight. I’m sure, even if you think my reasoning is flawed, that you can “wrap your brain” around this, can’t you?
And this right here is what the essence of my OP is. It’s one thing to be supportive and accepting of those who are in some way different. But rejection as a viable partner still creates an “outsider” atmosphere for that group.
No. Why do you think that women of Caitlyn’s “type” can’t be queer? Liking women is only one aspect of a woman’s personality, and has no impact at all on her looks, so I’m puzzled why you think that only straight women could be attracted to her (like huh? ) or she could only be attracted to straight women, who are pretty much like queer women (you know, widely varied in personality, looks, and what kind of personalities they’re attracted to) except in the gender they’re attracted to.
So your explanation makes even less sense than your original statement.
Sorry, but I agree with Kaio. I don’t see how someone is attracted to a straight woman because she’s straight. I think you’re making a division that doesn’t exist. People are attracted to all sorts of people, some of them are attracted back.
They can be, but it’s a much more limited subset, both just by pure numbers and percentages, because there is a lot more variety and a lot of labeling of what “type” of lesbian you are attracted to*. And because of the well documented animosity towards trans people in lesbian circles, it seems likely that there are a higher percentage of lesbians who would react like hajario** does–or worse.
What I don’t get is–what if it means she can’t find anyone who is attracted to her that she is attracted to? She doesn’t have control over who she’s attracted to. I don’t quite get what that had to do with the real question, which seems to be about “how come she calls herself straight if she likes girls?”
Yeah, she is in a place that makes it harder to find women she is attracted to who would be attracted to her. What is she supposed to do about that?
My observation. I’ve never seen the same sort of pigeonholing when straight women talk about the “type” they are attracted to. Maybe they just don’t do it publicly on the Internet.
*Not a slam on hajario–as long as he isn’t ruling it out entirely. I feel the reluctance, too, but I think that, if I found the right person, I would get over it. I could elaborate, but why?
I never suggested anywhere that someone is attracted to a straight woman because they are straight. What I said was, the women who were attracted to him and he was attracted to as a hyper-masculine man must have been a very specific “type” that Caitlin must/might have a hard(er) time attracting now, presenting as a woman.
I never suggested anywhere that someone is attracted to a straight woman because they are straight. What I said was, the women who were attracted to him and he was attracted to as a hyper-masculine man must have been a very specific “type” that Caitlin must/might have a hard(er) time attracting now, presenting as a woman.
Have you considered that some women might be attracted to more than one type of person?* Some women are attracted to men that are a bit nerdy but also men that are kind of on the dangerous side [then lets pretend that I laid out a bunch of other examples] and lastly, some women might be attracted to “hyper-masculine” men as well as Caitlyn? There’s a lot of women out there.
Finally, Bruce was just a facade. So maybe Caitlyn isn’t really interested in the women that were attracted to that person anyways. Maybe she’s only attracted to the women that are attracted to her current/real self.
Let’s not forget, Bruce was married 3 times already, maybe none of the women he’s been with were right for him, maybe all those women he was with over the years were just part of the ‘look at me, I’m the manliest man in the world’ show he was putting on’.
*Aren’t you? I know I’ve dated women that are practically polar opposites of each other. Not everyone has a ‘type’ and refuses to deviate from it.
Are you supporting this with observations / evidence, or are you speculating? There’s only one “type” of woman who likes masculine men? And women in this “type” can’t possibly ever be queer?
I’m also not sure why you think “liking hyper-masculine men” is a criteria for attraction for Caitlyn. It seems like she’d be more interested in people who could reciprocate her feelings. Beyond that, having-a-thing-for-people-not-like-her is probably less important than other things, like common interests and intelligence, and maybe she has a thing for redheads or femmes or something.
From where I sit it seems like you just don’t get or won’t acknowledge just how widely varied romantic preferences and combinations of personality traits are.
I’m not speaking in absolutes, or "can’t’"s. Yes, I know there must be women out there who are attracted to both “manly-men” and to “feminine-women”. I never suggested that sexual attraction was so neatly divided. My point was that it would seem to be difficult for Caitlin to easily find these women.
Also, I don’t know how you interpreted my comments as “attraction to masculinity” as a criteria for Caitlin as far as who she is attracted to. There is some serious miscommunication somewhere. I meant that prior to her transition, (and I’m just speculating here) many of the women in her life were probably attracted to this masculinity. Given that she has not changed her sexual preferences, she is still going to be attracted to the same type of woman that she was prior to her transition (and yes, attraction casts a wide net).
And all of this is nothing more than my thoughts, speculations. I’m not asserting anything. I’m discussing my thoughts on this matter in an effort to better understand what is admittedly a difficult subject for me to fully understand.
I’m not sure why the women who were attracted to Bruce Jenner is particularly relevant to Caitlin Jenner finding women who are attracted to her.
The fact that Bruce Jenner was an Olympic athlete doesn’t really make him hyper-masculine in my mind, nor does it limit the types of women who were attracted to him. He never presented as a macho lunkhead. I suspect a pretty broad range of women in the world would be attracted to his type - athletic, successful, rich, good looking, famous. Probably a similar range of women will be attracted to Caitlin for similar reasons.
But the basic sticking point seems to be that you think Caitlin will only be attracted to women who were attracted to Bruce. In my experience, that’s most irrelevant with respect to attraction. It may be relevant to availability, but that doesn’t seem to have been an issue.
No, not “only” but some, at least. How could she not? If I were to suddenly become a woman but retained my original sexuality, I’d still be attracted to the same types of women that I had been with as a man. Many of these women would not reciprocate this attraction with my new identity. My overall point is such a life seems quite difficult, in this respect.
It’s not all that dissimilar to the life that most gays and lesbians have where only 1-2% of a given population would be receptive to a romantic or sexual relationship.
It’s an interesting opportunity for introspection. I have no interest in pursuing a relationship with a woman, but I’ve met several transmen I’ve found attractive. Should the stars align, would I be open to a relationship with a biofemale? I don’t know, but I’d like to think that if I like the person, I wouldn’t care as much about the physical stuff.
Is it really 1-2%? I thought it was closer to 10-15%.
It’s an interesting opportunity for introspection. I have no interest in pursuing a relationship with a woman, but I’ve met several transmen I’ve found attractive. Should the stars align, would I be open to a relationship with a biofemale? I don’t know, but I’d like to think that if I like the person, I wouldn’t care as much about the physical stuff.
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I’d like to think the same about myself but I don’t think it would happen. I would try to be open to it.
) or she could only be attracted to straight women, who are pretty much like queer women (you know, widely varied in personality, looks, and what kind of personalities they’re attracted to) except in the gender they’re attracted to.