I keep telling my husband every time he yells at someone who cuts in front of him that they could have a gun. I tell him it is ok if he wants to get himself killed but he can leave me out. He may get his wish.
It would be safer just to stay home away from you crazy people driving and packing heat. I wonder how many drivers are armed?
I work at a FAA Enroute ATC center. At any given moment 40% of the cars in the parking lot contain a gun.
Holy Jesus. That’s RIGHT where my mom lives (i-17 and Bethany Home) and my son lives there during the week.
That is soooo scary.
Christ.
Monty, you’re a complete and utter idiot. You’re a disgrace to anyone in favor of gun control. You’re worse than useless, you’re actively destructive. Shut the fuck up, for the love of God.
FallenAngel, I am really impressed by the OP and everything you’ve posted in this thread. Even though I hold different views on guns, it is clear that your positions are well thought out and worthy of respect. You’re a model of how debate in a democracy should work, and I wish more people were like you.
Oh, and good job on not getting shot. 
Riboflavin, you should try to be more like FallenAngel. Right now, you’re pretty indistinguishable from Monty.
InternetLegend, if anyone calls you a pacifist sissy, they can answer to me. Walk out of the Pit with your head held high. Also, I’m glad you’re glad I didn’t get shot. It seems obvious, but I appreciate your concern.
Ribo, while I may certainly welcome your back against mine should the lead start flying, even though this is the Pit, there’s nothing wrong with conducting yourself with a little decorum, my friend. InternetLegend didn’t do or say anything offensive to those of us who claim armed responsibility for our personal safety. She (?) merely stated the views she has adopted for herself, and didn’t attack yours, mine or anyone else’s as being wrong. She got treated much more harshly than was warranted. I’m glad you’re on the side of the angels (pun fully intended), but when you’re right in your views and certain in your convictions, you get more mileage from talking than attacking.
It’s not reasonable people like her that are the problem, it’s incoherent whackjobs (and we’ve really only seen one in this thread) that refuse to familiarize themselves with the facts and evidence provided them before they go out on their psychopathic ravings. We do far better to distinguish ourselves from them to the highest degree possible rather than jump down into the mud with them.
If you’ve ever been to or watched a mud wrestling match, when the girls are introduced you will probably think one is a lot more attractive than the other. By the time it’s finished, you really can’t tell them apart. Arguing a postion is no different.
malkavia, while there’s no such thing as a “danger free zone” (and that’s why I never understand when you hear on the news “I can’t believe something like that could happen here”), what happened to me was a pretty random event. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Creepy, but not any more likely to happen again there than anywhere else.
Monty, stating that you fear guns was most likely a deduction based on your seething, raging and attacking at the mere mention that a gun was present in this story. While you may or may not “fear” firearms, your comments and refusual to see where you were wrong even when it was repeatedly pointed out to you certainly has all the appearances of fear.
Jessiecarol I heard a news story a couple of years ago that estimated one in four cars in Phoenix had guns in them. When you figure that what happened to me, and that “road rage” and other moment of passion-type shootings are pretty rare here, it might lend some credence to the statement that an armed society is a polite society.
Giraffe, thank you. I don’t see a need to scream when talking will suffice, and there’s usually no getting through to those who would warrant screaming anyhow. They’re fun to prod, but there’s almost no hope of ever changing their minds. The best that one can hope for is, that by responding with reason and clarity to their ravings, one may show oneself and, by reflection, one’s cause to be of higher respectability and credibility.
Face it, gun owners in general and active gun owners (those who train with and carry their weapons), are the subject of lots of negative and regularly reinforced stereotypes (He’s thinks he’s Gary Cooper/John Wayne. He carries a gun because he WANTS to shoot somebody. He’s an uneducated redneck. He’s a criminal waiting for a place to happen. He’s a racist. Etc., ad nauseum). The best way to show that those stereotypes are wrong is to interact with people in such a way as to SHOW them. I hope I’ve done that here to some degree.
FA: “Likely deduction,” huh? That would also be “jumping to a conclusion,” now wouldn’t it? I believe I indicated that I did do that earlier on and made correction–hey, I’m all for increased knowledge. Your assertion that educating the general public is a good one. Try doing that instead of recounting your Rambo “heroics” and I’d bet you’d get better results. But, of course, the story wouldn’t have that same “Damn, I’m good with my weapon” tone. BTW, I’m still not convinced that it’s legal to be toolig around the highway with your loaded weapon unholstered and pointed at folks. I’d really like to see some info on that. Other than getting a response for that, AFAIC, you can just drop dead and the world would be no worse off.
Rib: You called me a hoplophobe and indicated that word describes some pathology you appear to think I have. I then asked where I said I feared guns. You then asked where you said that I did. Are you telling lies to me and the world, or just to yourself? Your willful refusal to understand basic English in my posting above is beneath contempt. You also made this comment:
This clearly shows that you think that guns are not available to those who follow the law in Los Angeles. They are, and it’s easy enough to find that out. Call any one of the at least 20 gun shops in said city.
Giraffe: How in the name of whatever’s decent and holy in this universe could such a moronic piece oif shit like you get a doctorate? Apparently, Illinois doesn’t require thinking from their doctoral candidates. Shit, and you’re in California, too?! Good God, no wonder San Jose sucks more now than it used to. BTW, do you remember someone on these very boards saying the following:
or
Take your own advice, jerk.
Monty, from your posts, one might infer that you would prefer it if there were fewer guns in the United States. I myself am definitely in favor of reducing the number of people who have guns, and educating those that have them to use them wisely and responsibly. However, your sneering, idiotic posts have the sole effect of pissing people off, and making them think gun control advocates are a bunch of moronic jerks. Which hurts our chances of establishing some sort of gun control policy that will make people safer, while still having some sort of Fourth Amendment. Which pisses me off.
So instead of being an immature dickhead, why don’t you try to start talking to people with something approaching respect and convincing them they would better off with gun control? Between your assholish posts and acting like a complete stalker, you’ve got me wondering if I might not be safer with a gun myself. Fucking psycho.
Oh bloody fuck. Here we go again…
The difference between a deduction and jumping to a conclusion is that a deduction in this instance is based upon statements made during the course of a conversation or discussion. Jumping to a conclusion relies on no such evidence. The fact that you respond with such irrational force to the very idea of armed self-defense sounds like fear. Please note that I never said it WAS fear, just a likely deduction based on your ravings.
Your statement that you are “all for increased knowledge” is contrary to every statement you have made in this thread, in that you couldn’t be bothered to admit you were wrong or to read the information posted or to check out the cites given.
Also, I never once said it was legal to drive around with an unholstered weapon pointed at anyone. I said the way in which I carry my weapon is legal in AZ, and you accused me of a Class 3 felony. I pointed out, with the language of the statute, that how I carry is legal and also was kind enough to point out the actual degree of offense for violating that and what constitutes a Class 3 felony under the statute, which doesn’t have anything to do with methods of carry. You chose to ignore this and continue to state I was doing something illegal.
Of course it is illegal to point a gun at someone in any situation other than self defense, apprehension of a felon, defense of another or to stop a case of arson in progress (in AZ). I never said I pointed a gun at anyone. You never said anything about the weapon being pointed at someone. You merely mentioned ways of carrying the weapon inside the vehicle. Don’t go changing your story now that your original line of misinformation has been shot down, so to speak.
I repeatedly stated that I would not have opted to shoot in this situation. You ignored that and continued to defame me as a fucking moron, a fool and a dangerous person. Had I been armed and had I returned fire, I would have been LEGALLY justified in this instance, since I was shot at first and faced a credible threat. I would not, according to the tactical realities of the situation and the degree of real and present danger I faced, been MORALLY justified, since I could get away and didn’t need or want to place any other innocent people in harm’s way.
I also never recounted any “heroics”, Rambo-esque or otherwise. I never said, “I wish I had my gun so I could have shot that son of a bitch,” or anything to that effect. I said (and yes, Monty, this is a paraphrase; so I will stipulate that these are not my exact words) I wish I had my gun because I was lucky I was able to get away and if he had followed me up the ramp and the situation had deteriorated, I would have been without a sufficient means of self-defense.
Also, as I’ve said over and over and over again, I personally, morally, believe that every citizen has the obligation and duty to provide for his or her own safety. I choose to fulfill that obligation by being legally armed and trained in the use of my weapon. Others, such as Giraffe and InternetLegend, have other views on firearms ownership and carry by different people in different situations, but they can see that I am obviously not a maniac. I adamantly disagree with Giraffe’s position on gun control, but I can grant a fellow human being who has arrived at his or her position with thought and reason the same respect I demand for myself.
Of course you don’t care if I drop dead or not. I’ve repeatedly shown you to be an irrational, frenzied, ill-informed loon. I wouldn’t expect basic human courtesy or regard from one such as you.
I apologize to the other readers of this thread if I’ve dropped my estimation of “taking the high road” in their eyes. I have simply had it with this idiot’s continued ravings.
As I pointed out to you before, I never claimed that you said that you feared guns, so obviously the only one lying is you. My diagnosis of your condition (which is only confirmed by your latest posts) was based on inference from your posts, not a direct admission. For example, if someone were to come into a thread and rant about how terrible wide open spaces are and listed off a bunch of bogus dangers about wide open spaces, then started accusing people who go into wide open spaces of breaking the law with no factual basis, I would conclude that they were an agrophobe desipte the fact that they never directly said ‘I fear wide open spaces’. For example, you recently said:
to the OP. Except that it’s clear to anyone not suffering from you psychological problems that there were no Rambo “heroics” recounted (While I have only seen one Rambo movie, and that more than a decade ago, I do not believe that Rambo typically drove the hell away from a fight and called the police) and that there was nothing that would give a “damn, I’m good with my weapon” tone to the post to anyone without strange and irrational fears relating to guns, as the only mention of his own weapon was that he normally carries it and didn’t carry it on the day in question.
This, and other comments of yours, show exactly the sort of irrational fear associated with a phobia, and said fears relate to guns. Thus, my correct diagnosis of you as a hoplophobe.
And please tell me how an ordinary citizen can get a concealed carry permit in LA - a weapon locked in the legally required safety device and either left in one’s home or carried unloaded and in a locked container, with ammunition in a seperate container does not qualify as available to me. Of course, if you’re a gang-banger you slide the gun into your pants and have it available when you want it.
I pointed out the flaws in her reasoning and some likely areas of ignorance, which is perfectly fine on this board and I refrained from anything I’d regard as flamage despite being in the pit. If calling a wrong position wrong is ‘improper decorum’, then I suppose I do lack ‘decorum’ in the sense that you’re using it. OTOH, I’ve never agreed with the absurd philosophy that you should never tell anyone they’re wrong even when they are wrong.
Also, I find the assertion that all gun owners need to be ‘more responsible’ rather offensive - and I have a suspicion that that statement indicates that she’d like to have even more laws affecting us.
Really? Then why did she attack my use of the word hoplophobe to describe hoplophobes? She explicitly supports the use of ‘homophobe’ when discussing homosexualtiy, after all.
Ribo, I apologize if I ruffled your feathers. My point was only that sane and reasonable people who express opinions and views that differ from mine and, from you’ve posted I gather, yours, deserve to be treated with more respect than semi-literate whackjobs like Monti who can’t stand to be faced with facts.
As to what Giraffe and IL said, we differed in our perceptions of their tones and intents. I didn’t feel anything they said needed to be called out as forcefully as I felt you did it. That’s all.
Again, sorry if I offended you, and you certainly weren’t flaming, just harsher than I personally thought the situation warranted. Your call, though, and I shouldn’t have called you out on it. Mea culpa.