A reliable SDMB is worth paying for!

I KNEW that would happen! (the ‘hamsters’ ate my post)

so…

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Having nothing else to do (at work) I am getting fed up waiting for anything at all to happen on the SDMB. It is particularly bad tonight.

I for one am willing to pay for access if it means a more responsive board.

Making it a pay service will a) provide the money to upgrade it, and b) reduce the load by elimination those who do not think it is worth paying for.

I think £5 a month is a decent figure considering the number of users (although I personaly would pay up to £15)

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As tradition dictates, all posts about the board itself are eaten immediately.

Yes, but there is still the terrible problem of killing off the traffic to the site.

The truly great part about SDMB is that there are so many people on it. Wait 2-3 minutes and you will have a response to almost any thread.

I suggest that if they do start charging, that they only charge for starting threads. Or, that people who are not members can only post, a certain amount of times per week. The point is to give people who do not own accounts some reason to stay. The content that they provide is invaluable.

They should just offer to take donations. Find a legal way to do it. Call it a ‘club membership’ and send us each a button, for all I care. But if they could set up a way to take donations I’d give them $100 in a heartbeat, and I’ll betcha there’s a LOT of other people who feel the same way.

Just leave it public, and use the money to upgrade the servers, software, internet connection, or whatever else it takes to make this place a fast, secure site.

And I hope they make good backups and have a good disaster recovery plan, because the contents of the database of the SDMB is extremely valuable. Not just for the collective knowledge it contains, but for all of us it’s our only record of the time spent here. After 3500 odd messages, I’d be quite upset to lose it all. I’m certainly willing to pay to help keep it alive.

They were toying with the idea last year. I. for one, was in favor of spending the (hypothetical) $15-$20 per year. A LOT of people were not and they let their voices be heard.
I can guarantee you that if we increased it to your proposed…what? $7.50-$22.50 per month this place would be an absolute ghost town.
Even if 50% of the people stayed, which is truly a pipe dream’s pipe dream, it would not be worth that kind of money to me.

$20 (£13) a year, though? Yeah. Definitely.

There was a recent thread in ATMB (which is where this’d belong, I think) discussing the very matter. Last statement I saw on the matter was that the Reader was indeed working on/finalizing/plotting out some type of solution, but no information was available at the time.

Ah. Here it is.

Possibly, something like Sam Stone’s Cecil FanClub Membership, is in the works. (See ColdFire’s first post in the thread.)

[sub]That’s just me own speculation, o’ course.[/sub]

I got the figure from an average of online pay services. I think it is reasonable, it’s, what 1% of the average person’s monthly salary. Your not prepared to pay 1%?

Anyway, even $20 a year would be a lot considering the amount of people who would pay.

You’re talking to a college student here, Lobsang (uh, well, you are now that I’ve butted into this thread. :cough: ), and I can assure you that I cannot afford even $10 a month. As it is, I can barely afford gas and car insurance (and there are some times I need to dip into my savings account just to pay that insurance) because I only work part-time while going to school full-time.

If they had a voluntary donation, though, or maybe $25 a year for a “plus” membership (while still having free ones, like livejournal.com does), I would like that. That’s what Christmas presents are for. :slight_smile:

Well £5-£15 (curse this American keyboard, I have to go and get a pound sign from charmap every time) was a stab in the dark. (I still think it’s reasonable for something as unique as the sdmb) That is a minor point. the major point is that the sdmb deserves to be paid for, and we do not deserve to complain about it until we start paying for it.

But if making the sdmb a pay-service means drastically lowering the trafic then it probably isn’t a good idea. My main source of gratification is recieving replies to my posts.

Well at the moment there are 26,057 members. If the SDMB charged $1 a month to post and if 20% of the current members paid, that’s about $5000 per month. Now I’m no expert, but won’t that get some SERIOUS hardware?

I may be wrong but here at work we have one T1 dedicated to internet traffic and remote working and I think we pay around $8000 a month for that. Yes. $8K.

Money’s not the issue. They’ve steadfastly refused all donations. Why would they go to pay if they’re not even accepting money now?

The refusal of donations has been due to legal/tax issues associated with receiving money, if I recall correctly. Perhaps they’re finding a way to deal with it if that ATMB link is still correct.

Stinkpalm-

Your office must be way far away from the central station, or you guys are getting seriously ripped off. T1’s in Chicago can be had for $1K.

That said, there is no need for any dedicated line for the SDMB. The server can be located in the datacenter of the hosting company.

As I just posted in the rant thread, I pay only $400/month to rent a dual P4 2ghz with 1gig of RAM, which includes 100 gigs of transfer. Extra bandwidth is $1.50 a gig. I doubt this board uses more than 100 gigs/month, as it’s very light graphically.

So, no. Not $8K.

I don’t find it that bad, to be honest.

One model to look at might be Fark.com. They have a thing called “TotalFark,” which for $5/month, allows people to see articles ahead of time, including articles that never get posted to the main board.

Now the SDMB doesn’t work that way, but my point is that maybe the SDMB could charge a small fee for certain “perks.” For example, perhaps the SDMB could allow avatars and private messaging for users who pay $1 per month.

Just something to chew on.

I’ve got a post in the linked thread on about 9/26/02 that reprints a list of easily chargeable vB options that Anthracite listed over on Fathom. Private messaging would work as part of such a package; avatars wouldn’t. Others that would are posting polls, editing posts (which wouldn’t be a problem if the window for editing were restricted to, say, 5 minutes), and posting to a SDMB calendar. Existing services that could be made part of such a package include viewing profiles and searching.

Ed Zotti has in the past argued against any solution that wouldn’t allow some level of free posting. (I’m in his corner on that one.) From all accounts, a fix that would allow some free posting, but would charge for frequent posting, wouldn’t be trivial.

But there are a few non-intrusive things that could be tried, that haven’t:

  1. The aforementioned suggestion that the SDMB charge for some sort of ‘perks’ package. If 500 users (of the estimated 2000 active users) were willing to pay $30 a year for such a package, that would be $15K.

  2. Selling banner ads. www.baseball-reference.com does something like this in the way of allowing donors to sponsor pages in return for donations. (I’ve got fifty bucks’ worth of page sponsorships over there right now; I’d love to do the same here, where I spend much more of my time.) Their situation is far from directly analogous to the SDMB’s, but there are ways to modify their system to our situation.

At any rate (see my earlier link in this post), the CR’s off-the-top-of-the-head guesstimate is that ads might bring in $9K/year.

  1. Merchandise. I’m not the only one who’s less than crazy about owning Slug’s artwork. Why not have a contest to design SDMB merchandise (T-shirts, sweatshirts, coffee mugs, mouse pads), as distinct from Straight Dope merchandise? Then take orders.

These are things that the CR could do with minimal upfront investment, that would (a) start bringing in some money directly attributable to the SDMB, (b) give us a chance to finally turn our enthusiasm for this board into financial support, and © finally get them (and us, if they’re kind enough to share the info) some hard-and-fast numbers on how much revenue this place can bring in to offset its costs.

At the same link from above, Ed estimates the costs of the entire website (the column and the MB combined) as running between $35K and $45K annually. While I’m hesitant to endorse that figure without a more specific breakdown, it’s a starting point. Ed says that, as of a year or so ago, about 63% of the page loads were at the MB, and the remaining 37% were at the column’s part of the site. If we take the $40K midpoint, 63% of that is $25K attributable to the MB itself.

I don’t know if this place can raise $25K a year between first-class memberships, banner ads, and merchandise sales. Maybe it can, probably it can’t. (I’d bet that it wouldn’t pull in that much, but I’d also bet they’d bring in $15K or better.) But whatever it can bring in has to be a whole lot better than the $0 it’s bringing in now.

On the expenses side, a more reliable server would surely reduce the portion of Jerry the Tech God’s time attributable to the SDMB, cutting that expense somewhat. And the existence of a steady stream of revenue would surely reduce the time Ed would have to spend trying to figure out how to make this place viable. (Ed says he’s the main labor expense of the website, but whether that’s a real expense* or a bookkeeping convenience, I don’t know, nor do I know the split of his time between the Straight Dope column website and the MB website.)
Main thing is, I hope that the CR tries some of these ideas, or variations on them, soon. Unlike solutions that involve paying to post, there’s no real need to be cautious in trying these out. And there’s two bad things that happen every month they don’t move on these ideas: (1) money that they could have collected from the SDMB membership gets left on the table, and (2) we continue to not find out just how much money this site can raise, which means we’re no closer to solving the board’s problems.
*[sub]“Real” as in “They gave Ed a raise when the MB came into being” or “they’d cut his pay if they pulled the plug on the MB” or “they’re paying someone else to do stuff Ed used to do before the MB came along,” or something along those lines, any of which would indicate the extent to which the CR is actually out-of-pocket due to the time Ed spends overseeing the MB. (None of this questions Ed’s value to the MB; I’m just pointing out that we have nothing to go on regarding whether Ed’s attention to this MB represents an objective cost to the CR.)[/sub]

The human factor shouldn’t be overlooked, either. There are plenty of people on here who wouldn’t mind helping create product, maybe just the ideas, maybe the actual implementation. There’s a vast resource that’s largely being left untouched.

One reason I like the idea of donations is because Dopers span such a broad economic spectrum. For some people who have to watch every penny, $1/month may be out of reach - and I’d hate to see those people forced off the site because they couldn’t pay. As for me, I’d pay WAY more than that quite willingly if it would get the Dopers a more reliable server. And the only “perk” I’d want in return would be reliable hamster service for ALL the Dopers.

And I’d bet I’m not the only Doper who feels this way.

What we need is an NPR-style pledge drive. I voluntarily give NPR money, but only when my attention is called to it by the pledge drives. Here, we could have a pledge drive for a specific financial goal (e.g. $10,000), and a stated purpose (e.g. server upgrade, annual maintenance costs, etc.) People could give what they want, if anything. People who give certain amounts could get little gifts (e.g. SDMB coffee mugs, naked pictures of the moderators, etc.) and/or a separate member title. Even better, people who give a certain amount get to choose their own member title! (Except for reserved ones, like Administrator or BANNED, of course.)

I personally would pay $50 every year, if my posts had

Giraffe
Resident asshole

next to each one.

I think the key is 100% voluntary contributions, with no real difference in services, beyond little perks like different Member titles. If you add features (like chatting or editing) only available to paying customers, I think it would divide the board and discourage casual posters.