A sequel to The Lord of the Rings

We’ve discussed here the actual LOTR sequel that J.R.R. Tolkien began working on before abandoning and that takes place about 200 years after the War of the Ring. Here’s a site that discusses that and includes lots of insights into how the Fourth Age of Middle Earth would have unfolded: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/31389

Now having acknowledged that, just for fun I sketched out my own little plot outline for a theoretical sequel that would take place 15-20 years later. Of course it’ll never actually get written. You can use your imagination to flesh out the gaps, you can denounce it as heresy, or you can quibble it to death piecemeal. Be my guest:

The Mouth of Sauron escapes the rout of the Morannon and eventually makes his way through Mordor to Umbar. Incidents along the way help set the stage for a plot involving the troubled development of the nation of former slaves in the southern Mordor region of Nurn. Umbar is a den of intrigues and MoS has plenty of cronies there to help him in his plots. We learn a lot more about the Black Numenorians.

Aragorn’s forces are mopping up in Mordor but many orcs escape Eastward. In alliance with the Varaigs of Khand, MoS is able to reorganize them beyond Gondor’s reach.

Aragorn carries on the process reestablishing the kingdom of Arnor with the rebuilding of Fornost. Sam, Merry, and Pippin travel from the Shire to take up their parts as Counsellors of the North Kingdom.

Meanwhile, Legolas is doing landscaping in Ithilien when he receives word that his father, Thranduil, Elvenking of the Woodland Realm is planning to sail to Valinor and that Legolas is to become king. He visits Gimli at the Glittering Caves behind Helms Deep and together they travel north. After visiting a sadly declining Lothlorien, they encounter a dwarf-camp along the river. The Dwarves are preparing for their war to retake Moria/Khazad-dum by scouting out its East Gate along with Orc strongholds throughout the Misty Mountains. Legolas pledges his aid in this endeavor and the two of them continue on home, retracing the steps of Thorin & Co.

Merry and Pippin travel to Rohan, then Gondor, reuniting with Faramir and Eowyn. From Ithilien, they and Bergil (son of Beregond) dare to explore the not-quite abandoned Minas Morgul. Spooky adventure ensues.

MoS returns in secret to ruins of Barad Dur to recover the palantir (and/or certain other magic items).

Radagast the Brown, being the only wizard left in the West of Middle Earth, finally comes into his own as an effective sorcerer (after some humorous situations).

Dwarves under Thorin III and Elves under Legolas begin attacking orc strongholds throughout the Misty Mountains in preparation for the final assault to retake Moria. But the orcs know they’re coming and rather than stand and fight they beak out to the west, pouring out of Moria, the Redhorn pass and points north. Arnor is still weak and the orcs threaten to ravage much of the land. Rivendell is destroyed.

In the south, the forces of Gondor under Aragorn are heavily engaged with the forces of Harad and lay siege to Umbar. Naval forces under Prince Imrahil clash with the Corsairs, but the latter flee out to sea and Gondor’s navy continues on in assaulting Umbar. But they are unable to intervene in the attack of the Mordor Orcs and Varaigs of Khand on the ex-slaves of Nurn. Aragorn confronts MoS in Umbar, but the latter escapes, using both sorcery and a flying beast (not all having perished along with the Nazgul).
(continued)

The Orcs of the Misty Mountains sweep westward along the Great East Road and threaten to ravage Breeland and then the Shire. Both the Hobbits and the Elves of Lindon form armies to assist the Men of Arnor in defending the line of the Weather Hills, but the Dwarves refuse to participate, content in their re-conquest of Khazad-dum.

The Corsairs invade and ravage the Gray Havens and MoS appears on the scene. By now it’s clear that his plan is to evacuate the Misty Mountain orcs to the south to link up with the Mordor orcs. The Eagles intervene, but by now MoS has organized a squadron of beast-flyers Gwaihir is killed.

In the south, he Varaigs, decide that they have been betrayed by MoS and his orcs and turn on them. The orcs become caught between the Varaigs and the Nurnians and are annihilated.

The Northern orc army breaks through the defensive line and passes through Bree, but they cause less damage than feared. Sam Gamgee is the leader of the hobbits who are the last defense of the Shire and must decide wether to burn down Brandywine Bridge. But as the orc army near the Old Forest, the power of Tom Bombadil is revealed and the creatures of the Old Forest (including the Entwives!) block the way.

With the arrival of an army of Woodland Elves under Legolas, Gimli at last persuades the Dwarves to join the fight, and their hosts pour from the west-gate of Khazad-dum. Freed up from their wars in the South, the Riders of Rohan and cavalry of Gondor also race northwards.

Radagast, carried aloft by Landrovel, defeats MoS and his beast-flyers with sorcery and by summoning a host of birds, who overwhelm them.

Elven fleets from Valinor—the Teleri—destroy the ships of the Corsairs and re-take the Havens. The Northern orc army—the last orcs in Middle Earth—faces annihilation.

But then the Valar appear and decree that orcs too are children of Iluvatar and it is not permitted that they be slain to the last. The orcs lay down their weapons and are permitted to pass through the Shire peacefully and come to the Gray Havens, whence they sail on Elven ships to Valinor. There they will be redeemed, cleansed in body and spirit and return to their true nature as Elves.

I’ve always wanted to know what happened to Radagast!

Someone may chime in to say that Tolkien eventually decided against an Elvish origin for Orcs, but this was only in his notes, and who’s to say he couldn’t have changed his mind again? Canonically,* it’s still an open question.

So who is MoS anyway? In the novel, he is nothing but the Mouth of Sauron, having completely lost his own identity. (He is depicted as extremely prideful, but it isn’t clear to me if that’s a surviving remnant of individuality or a projection of Sauron’s own arrogance.) After Sauron’s destruction, does the man who became the Mouth of Sauron return to himself, or is he an automaton still following a futile directive, serving a master who for all intents and purposes no longer exists?

The appearance of the Valar at the end seems problematic to me. I think LOTR was about the end of the age of magic and the beginning of the age of man. I can see Elves and a stray wizard hanging around for a little while to help with the cleanup, but not the Valar, who couldn’t even directly intervene in the War of the Ring.
*By the TWDuke definition of Middle-earth cannon, which is limited to LOTR and those parts of The Hobbit not contradicted by LOTR.

You might want to read *The Silver Call * duology by Dennis McKiernan, made up of *The Trek to Kraggen-Cor * and The Brega Path.

My understanding is that Mr. McKiernan was laid up by an accident, and wrote a sequel to LOTR where the dwarves and hobbits return to Moria. When he finished it, he tried to get it published, and was told, “No way, Jose.” He proceded to change all the names to protect the innocent, and then wrote a prequel trilogy (*The Iron Tower * trilogy) which was not at all a rip-off of LOTR except that it had short guys, dwarves, elves, wizards, and a traversal of an abandoned dwarf mine/city.

Anyway, if you read The Silver Call, and mentally reverse the name substitutions, you have a sequel to LOTR.

But there were two other wizards, Alatar and Pallandro, weren’t there? I forget what colours they wore. If one of them were to go bad, they might well become a new Dark Lord.

Good story ideas. And everyone wants to know more about Radagast, the entwives, Imrahil, Southrons, Corsairs, etc., after all. But, really, what made LOTR special was the hobbits. Don’t think you have enough hobbits. Or a central hero, like Frodo. His triumph & tragedy are what’s central to LOTR, to me anyway. And he’s supported of course by all those other great characters…

Sigh. But much as I enjoed your sequel outline, Sqweel, it suffers - as all such attempts do - from the eternal conflict of the devoted fan: the wish that the Professor had given us more! more! vs. the realization that he really gave us just enough.

Alatar and Pallando - Blue and Deep-Blue. And either of them could be nearly as bad as Saruman at any rate, although you’re completely on your own when it comes to deciding where they might have gone and what they might have got up to.

Not that Sqweels idea doesn’t make a good read, but isn’t it contradicted by the epilog to the Ring trilogy, where it’s said what happened to all the major players?

Also, regarding the Entwives: sorry to be a downer, but the between-the-lines impression I always got was that they were dead. That the Treeherds were doomed to extinction, and the last of the Ents grew old and died still hoping in vain that the Entwives might turn up somewhere.

There was a pretty good story I found on the net with Elanor (Sam’s daughter) as the central character and her time in Minas Tirith (though she also goes into Harad)

don’t rememeber where exactly I found it.

Brian

Indeed that was rather crudely conceived of, and a more sophisticated way of bringing about the same plot development may be in order. I’m suggesting that the annihilation of an entire “race” is what crosses the line and warrants intervention, and also that resolving the Orc question is a major milestone in the transition from fantasy realm to normalcy.

It’s just that the surprise ending like that made the whole thing sing and made me want to share it. We could imagine a more in-depth look at Orkish society as a prelude to their eventually becoming sympathetic characters.

I haven’t figured out what to do about trolls yet. Maybe they all just turn to stone, or maybe some good-guy troll characters emerge who then heroically sacrifice themselves. Or something.

Needs some fleshing out, sqweels, but it’s light-years better than the idea pitched here. (YouTube)

This is a hobby of mine also, my difference is I tend to play it out in multiple D&D campaigns.

First off a few nitpicks. In writing a sequel, sqweels you should avoid changing the few things that are known or strongly hinted at by Professor Tolkien. The use of the Mouth of Sauron is an excellent idea. One that I have done myself is several campaigns.

But changing the stories of Legolas with his father leaving when instead it is Legolas that leaves, seems like a bad start to me.

Captain Merry would be a better choice to lead the Hobbits resistance against the Orcs.

Your use of Tom Bombadil seems like a poor idea. Perhaps in some smaller way. Maybe you could even have a small delegation of Ents visiting him looking for Entwives. They could be led by Quickbeam of course.

Rivendell should not be destroyed, the Orcs should not be able to find it even without the Power of Elrond’s ring protecting Rivendell. Besides Celeborn is specifically mentioned to retire there for a while after establishing the Kingdom of West Lorien in Southern Mirkwood.

I would think having the Teleri return from Valinor was blasphemy. :wink:
If you want some Deus Ex Machina just use Ulmë & Ossë and do it literally. However, overall, find a way for the Men and their allies to win mostly on their own.

Suggestions: Get the Beornings involved. Remember the Goblins of Gundabad, Mt Gram and possible Carn Dum would likely be more numerous than those of the Misty Mountains and Moria.

I like playing up Radagast and the Blue Wizards into the story. I love the idea of the two Blue Wizards locked in a battle where one is mostly corrupt and one is leading a resistance where little resistance has ever existed.

I will chime in more later.

Jim

Not too much, I hope. It’s more a case of cramming it in to where it isn’t mentioned. If you go back to the last part of Appendix B, this story would have to take place either just before or just after SR 1442, when Sam goes to Gondor for a year.

Feel free to point out more specific contradictions, tho. It’s all part of the fun.

You may be right, although I see a very slight possibility that some may survive in the Old Forest as left open. The Entwives are jettisonable, however, since more strongly hinted at is that there are Huorn-like creatures in the Old Forest.

But the prospect of female Ent characters is fairly attractive vs no Ents at all.

That’s optional, and it doesn’t go anywhere anyway. It just seemed fair that Legolas get his turn as Elvenking (and something needs to happen up there; there should be Erebor scenes too, and Elf and Dwarf women and children). And anyway, there’s plenty of time for Legolas to produce an heir and then sail in his turn.

The possibility for that is left open. I haven’t entirely settled on the movements of the Hobbits and Hobbit armies.

Actually, my use of Bombadil is rather vague. He needs to play some role since things are happening right in his front yard. Hell, maybe it should be he and not some Vala who engineers the change of heart in the Orcs and gets them to proceed orderly.

Hey, that’s not a bad idea!

Well, you just provided an excuse for the Orcs to find Rivendell. But yes, the bit with Celeborn is perhaps the most glaring contradiction. But when I thought of destroying Rivendell, it was a bit stunning and thus was crying out to be included. Tragic events like this need to happen, or else the story is too antiseptic.

Well I’m trying to keep the blasphemy to minimum, anyway.

But if my plot is to come to fruition, there must be a means to bring the Orcs to Valinor. And there’d be a naval battle.

(I’m not completely settled on the naval aspects. I’m asking a lot of the Corsairs, since I want them to do battle with Gondor’s navy under Imrahil and still show up at the Grey Havens with enough carrying capacity to ferry the Orc army to the south.)

All this is allowed for in the outline.

The Blue Wizards have always had great sequel potential. But I decided to leave them where JRRT had set them aside for now. One could imagine a different sequel where they’re at the center of plots involving a Tolkienized version of East Asia.

Well, I wrote one. Whether it’s the one you read or not, I can’t say. It was posted on the original LOTR fansite sponsored by Decipher. It was a novel, in the end! And then I carried on with The Adventures of Legolas Greenleaf. People really liked it and I must say that for fanfic it was pretty good. No MarySue, no slash. Just straight storytelling. It’s still there, on the “new” LOTR fansite.

I think Tolkien was wise to stop where he did. Any further stories would just be the same old same old adventure, full of wars and failures and a lot like European history actually was.

I like some of the ideas here, but I think structurally it should mimic The Lord of the Rings in more ways than geography and population. In particular, the story events Tolkien created are a cascade of choices made by the principal characters: because A, then B; because B, then C; because C, then D; because D, then E, and so on. Samwise makes mention of this continuity when he observes that Frodo carries in his glass the light of the star from the tale of Beren and Luthien.

A good specific example is Boromir: because he fell victim to the temptation of the Ring, the Fellowship was sundered; because Merry and Pippin were carried away by Orcs, they were brought to Fangorn Forest; because they were brought to Fangorn, they roused the Ents; because they roused the Ents, Isengard fell; because Isengard fell, Rohan was free to rescue Gondor; because Rohan was free to rescue Gondor… and so forth. (You can follow that chain of choices backward through Boromir, who was sent by Denethor in place of Faramir; and Denethor chose Boromir because Faramir was befriended by Gandalf… and so on.)

Choice is everywhere in the stories. Frodo chooses to bear the Ring. His friends choose to accompany him. Almost nobody in the story is passive, waiting for things to happen.

I think any worthy sequel to The Lord of the Rings would adopt a similar structure, based on a cascade of character choices. For instance, the Dwarves shouldn’t just decide out of the blue to re-take Moria; they should be seeking after Moria’s wealth because, since the destruction of the One Ring, their wealth-generating Seven Rings have failed. This makes their invasion of Moria a direct consequence of the end of the Third Age, rather than an afterthought. Perhaps the Corsairs don’t just ravage the Grey Havens for the hell of it; instead, they’re retaliating for assault on their ships by the Army of the Dead.

The quibbles I have with the plot you have established is that you seem to be pushing characters into position because that’s where you want them, rather than because the characters have a personal reason to be there (Legolas visiting Gimli in the Glittering Caves and they happen to run across a Dwarf camp, for instance). Tolkien didn’t seem to care much for coincidence in his stories. At the Council, Elrond observes that all the Free Peoples of Middle Earth converged on Rivendell seeking advice: the Dwarves because Sauron had sent emissaries to the Lonely Mountain, the Elves because Orcs had rescued Smeagol, the Hobbits fleeing with the ring, and Men because Boromir was asking about the Vision. They all had legitimate reasons to choose to go there; they were not summoned. (Most of them, in fact, were spurred to Rivendell by Sauron’s very own choices, emphasizing that evil contains the seeds of its own destruction.)

Also, you bring in foreign lands little mentioned in the trilogy — this means it’s difficult to build them into that structure of cascading choices I’m talking about, since we don’t have any good idea what choices those people made or why they’re in the story now. About Khand we know little; there seems to be no particular reason for the Mouth of Sauron to be there, at least of which we are aware. It might be more satisfying to say, “The Mouth of Sauron fled to Harad and tried to raise another army; but because of Sauron’s previous lies, the Mouth was rejected and Harad made peace with Gondor; thus, the Mouth went to Khand.” It gives him a reason, a motivation, based on the history of previous choices.

I hope this makes some sense. :slight_smile:

That very well could be it. - did you use the same name? (it sounds familiar)

Brian

Yes.

It was a lot of fun.

Sure, I can see that. There are plenty of choice-and-consequence situations that I’m allowing for. Aragorn has to make tough choices because he can’t be in two places at once. The Hobbits have to choose weather to send an army eastwards to defend Arnor, and also weather to destroy the Brandywine bridge. The Dwarves have to decide weather to continue fighting the Orcs after they’ve re-taken Moria. If my destruction of Rivendell is at all kosher, it would be the result of bad choices. And the Orcs have to decide weather to fight to the death or submit to being taken to Valinor.

The resolution to the Orc question also provides for the kind of continuity you’re suggesting, since this plot device is based on their ancient, Elvish origins. And I’m just kind of vaguely speculating about the role Tom Bombadil plays in this scenario. Perhaps some insight as to his relationship with the Valar is revealed.

Who said this is worthy? :wink: But the re-taking of Moria is more like a foregone conclusion, so plot-turning implications need hung around it.

The Mouth of Sauron sent them there to evacuate the Orcs to the south to help him with his imperial ambitions down there, if I haven’t made that clear.

Yeah, hooking G&L up like that is rather forced (I looked at the map and asked, is it kind of on the way?). I originally had them make it all the way to Erebor before Gimli finds himself in the midst of the preparations to re-take Moria (and some sort of political situation involving Thorin III, and maybe he even falls on love). Something needs to happen along the way, though, and drawing nigh to Moria, it makes sense that Dwarf scouts would be keeping watch on the east gate. Or they could have some encounter with the Beornings, but here too, some development with implications for the plot needs to take place.

I beg to differ with you on that without going into the countless examples I could think of.

The south is where significant potential for warfare still exitst, and the complex Gondor/Nurn/Umbar/Khand/Harad dynamic has a lot of potential for strategic plot developments. The Varaigs of Khand are the Mouth’s allies in his bid to create and empire by taking over Nurn (southern Mordor) and points east, but he intends to betray them and dominate them once all the Orcs have joined up (maybe the desert nomads of Khand are sitting on rich coal deposits; yeah that’s it). Maybe MoS gets ratted out by some swashbuckling outlaw-type character from Umbar who turns out to be a good guy.

Nothing stopping that from happening. I haven’t entirely settled on how Harad comes into play.