A short poll for theists and atheists.

In My Humble Opinion
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1b Atheist: Having an all-powerful God is scary. And having one who is all-powerful AND good would force me to read the mountains of religious nonsense that tries to rationalize how we have a good God and a miserable, tortured existence for so many helpless men, women and children.

2b Atheist: Don’t know, assume oblivion. Let’s make what we have now good for everyone because it’s all we’ve got.

3b Atheist: No opinion

4a Theist (I know, but I can’t resist): Religion brings out evil in so many ways.

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Another (admittedly daring) addition to the questions:

If you are a theist who believes God designed and created human beings: Why do you think he didn’t incorporate theism into the brians of all of them? Is he a God who removed it to see what would happen?

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1b Atheist: Do you wish so?

Not really. I mean, I have on occasion wished I had faith, but to be honest most atheists hardly think about God, and I’m amongst them. I don’t have an active desire, no.

2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?

There is no such thing as a soul. As for dying, I imagine it’s like going to sleep and never waking up.
My heart would like there to be an afterlife, perhaps like the one in my sig, but I don’t believe there is anything more potent in this body than the body & mind itself.

3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.

Huh. I still consider myself atheist Hindu. I happily remove all of the god-trappings and use it as a way to live my life.

4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.

I’m going to skip this question because I barely have an opinion of either person.

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Well, I wanted to know something similar when I was seven or so - if God made us, why didn’t he make it so we could only be good? My father explained that we were given free will so we were not puppets who only existed to worship him. I still think it was a pretty good answer, but I also believe given his only “thou shall only worship me!” command he wanted the challenge of creating beings who could chose not to adore him; like people who refuse to play video games in easy mode because it’s less fulfilling if you win then. I guess that attributes arrogance to him, but if I made the whole world, I’d be arrogant too.

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I haven’t read anyone else’s answers yet.

1b. No. Every day, I thank God He doesn’t exist.

2b. I don’t believe in a “soul,” per se. The closest thing I believe in is consciousness or personality. At death, they just stop. The question is sort of like: “Where does the music go when the CD is over?”

3b. I don’t think they have any more reason to believe what they do, than Western religions. It’s not about God, it’s about irrationality.

4b. I don’t know nearly as much as I should, about either of them, but in general I respect their work. (And are you somehow equating Darwin with Phelps?)

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1b Atheist: Do you wish so?

No, I see no need for one.

2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?

I don’t believe there is such a thing as a ‘soul’ so all that happens is that the electrochemical reactions in the body cease and the pattern dissipates. Setting aside the pain of any trauma or disease that may be the cause I expect death will be like falling asleep. “Near Death Experiences”, for what little they are worth, which portray a drifting away, tunnel and other such visions tend to reinforce the expectation that it will be a gentle, if not pleasant, experience. Of course it won’t last long and then there’ll be no record of it. In general I don’t wast time worrying about something that is inevitable. If it hurts at least it won’t take long.

3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.

I consider it to be wishful thinking. If it turns out that I’m wrong then it’d be nice if these were closer to the truth though. Nothing sounds more abhorrent than the western religion concepts of an afterlife. All in all, passing into nothingness is the most logical and, in my opinion the best, alternative.

4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.

I think Darwin was a very daring scientist who provided a solid beginning towards understanding how life on this planet developed. I’m much less familiar with Dawkins and have no real opinion about his work because I don’t know enough about it.

5 Atheist: How do you respect a loved-one when he or she dies? I ask because My step-father died last year. Logically I know he’s gone and therefore not capable of witnessing the gestures of repsect those that outlived him feel compelled to undertake (myself included) And it’s not possible for him to ‘feel proud’ or ‘glad’ of any good I do. But I still feel like it’s right to, for example, visit his grave and refresh the flowers there.

I think often about people I’ve lost and how they would view what I am doing and feeling. I often wish they were still around so that I could still share things with them. Refreshing flowers or performing other rituals is a reasonable way to keep their memory alive and reflect on what they meant to me when they were still around.

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You don’t stop loving someone who has died, even if there’s no afterlife. That’s crazy.

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1b Having a god would be pretty convenient. The answer would be right there and the problems could be fixed by praying.

2b No soul. What would it feel like to die? I think if you die from natural causes and don’t have any sort of disease or condition that would prematurely end your life, it would be just like breathing, except the last breath never comes in/goes out. That’s it, lights are off, the shop is closed. You had a good run there, fella.

3b So far as life after death, it’s still just wishful thinking. Someone stayed up late at night, staring at the stars and said to themself: “This can’t be all, can it?” They then figured that with the god they believe in, there WAS something else. With reincarnation, that’s more interesting to me. If we come to the conclusion that consciousness and “being” is purely physical, then there is some credence to reincarnation simply because of the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy. That would then mean that, on the most basic level, there’s almost nothing (if anything at all)that’s different from me that wasn’t there from someone/something else. Maybe that explains furries. They’re about 7 parts per million Irish Wolfhound and that’s enough conflict on a molecular level to have their human selves explore their furriness.

4a Theist: Give me your opinion of the Phelps family.

4b Darwin: Well, there’s a lot to say about him. Natural selection, evolution, just…biodiversity. It’s amazing and fascinating and incredibly complex, yet simple enough to shove in a paragraph-sized explanation. Yet, without Darwin, we wouldn’t have Social Darwinism and could have circumvented some atrocities due to misaligned beliefs (like, ironically enough, religious fundamentalism).
Dawkins/Sam Harris: I’m of two minds about them. Part of me wants to hammer out a compromise with moderate religious beliefs and life in that world where we can all “just get along”. Coming to a compromise usually means that you have to sacrifice your outliers (your zealots) and move to the middle and “start over”.The other part of me sees what they’re doing and is familiar with the logic and reasoning behind their ideas and finds it increasingly harder and harder to refute them. It’s funny how things happen in circles. Puritans escaped England to escape persecution (simplified account, of course) and over time, the Puritans, in their more modern forms, have become popular and powerful enough to necessitate an exodus of athiests. Can’t we all just get along? I’d also like to point some honorable mention to H.L. Mencken in this category as well.

Respecting the Dead: Well, there are certain things you don’t do to dead bodies that you do with living bodies. It’s just basic (dead) human dignity. Outside of that, you’ve got memories (and if you’re the type, pictures). “Pour out a little liquor” or whatever you do, but that’s fine. They have no feelings on the matter and can’t see you. They’re dead.

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1.b) I’ve sometimes wished for justice in the universe but I don’t want to worship anything.

2.b.) I don’t believe there is any such thing as a “soul,” hence nothing “happens” to it. Death is not like anything. It’s not an experience.

3.b.) I like Zen meditation but I think that the supernaural elements found in (some forms of) Buddhism are nonsense. I don’t believe in karma or in reincarnation.

  1. Huge admiration for Darwin. Respect and some sympathy for Dawkins but I don’t always think he’s the best ambassador for atheism… Neither of them deserves to be mentioned in the same paragraph with the Phelps clan (who, by the way, I don’t consider to be truly religious. I think Phelps is an anti-social troll who uses religion as an excuse.
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Went through the edit window.

I wouldn’t WANT an omnipitent deity. No good can come from that, even if it is a “perfect being”. That’s part of the reason we’re in this ideological mess to begin with: one side’s perfect being is more perfecter than another side’s.

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Dammit, I didn’t even see you say this earlier. I figured someone else might have made a connection where I did with the Law, but I’ve never heard anyone else say it.

Great minds, eh?

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1b Atheist: Do you wish so? Not actively. Sure, it would be nice to know there was someone in charge, a larger plan that made sense even if it wasn’t obvious to our feeble intellects, yadda yadda. But I don’t sit around thinking “Golly! Wouldn’t it be great if God really existed!”.

2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die? I imagine we simply stop. I imagine it’s like going to sleep, without dreams. I have no first hand knowledge of what it is to die and I don’t pretend to.

3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence. I haven’t researched so I don’t have an informed opinion. I also don’t live amongst too many Buddhists so I don’t encounter them in everyday life. I have no opinion on their beliefs.

4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins. Darwin was a very astute scientist. I don’t know enough about Dawkins to have an opinion of him.

Atheist: How do you respect a loved-one when he or she dies? I ask because My step-father died last year. Logically I know he’s gone and therefore not capable of witnessing the gestures of repsect those that outlived him feel compelled to undertake (myself included) And it’s not possible for him to ‘feel proud’ or ‘glad’ of any good I do. But I still feel like it’s right to, for example, visit his grave and refresh the flowers there. I think it’s something you do for yourself, not for him. Your respect and love of him did not end with his death and it feels right to you to go on remembering him and doing what small things that you can “for him”. Just like all the other rituals associated with death… a funeral is not for the deceased, it’s for the living people left behind. It gives them a chance to come together, to surround themselves with others who feel the loss, to remember the life that was lead and take comfort in feeling that it had value and touched others, and it provides a finality, the sense of a chapter closed. Having a grave or similar to visit gives you the ability to designate time for thinking about your loved one without other everyday concerns creeping in. When you stand there, you know it’s right that your mind is filled with thoughts of him that you might push away in your home, workplace and other parts of daily life. There is nothing else you should be doing in that time and place. Putting flowers down shows you that you still care, shows others that this is no ordinary plot of earth and that it contains the remains of someone who is loved and cared for even in death. He is gone, but his story continues in your heart because going to his grave is a form of interaction with him. If you didn’t have that, if you didn’t do that, then his story would be over.

Does that make sense?

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(I hope it is obvious, but just in case there’s any confusion, all if this is IMHO.)

I do not identify myself as either an atheist or a theist, but I thought the theological questions would be interesting to answer, anyhow.

1a. That would depend on the person, obviously, but my guess is that most do not. If they wished for a God to exist, I’m sure most could be able to convince themselves to believing in the existence of God. The human mind is very adept at turning “wishes” into “beliefs”.

1b. Depends on your definition of “God”. Do I wish for an all-powerful, all-good entity that is separate from humanity? No. I want that all-good entity (or as I see it, more like an energy) to be present in every single piece of matter in existence. Just like there is no such thing as matter without heat, I believe there is no such thing as matter without God [within it].

2a. I would agree with them wholeheartedly. I believe there is no such place as hell.

2b. After the body dies, I imagine the “soul” becomes an energy/entity separate from that of the material world, but still conscious and sentient and existent in a realm that the human body, living, cannot imagine or comprehend. In the same vein, I can’t begin to imagine what it would feel like to die and cross over to such a place.

3a. “Heaven”, if by that you mean the place where the soul continues after we die, like mentioned above, cannot be understood by the human mind. In this place space and time are irrelevant, but everything in our memories is “tangible” and exists in every moment. The connections we have made with others do not die, and we continue to connect to both those who live (as these connections are forged while still in the material plane) and those who have died.

In this “Heaven”, pleasure is no longer “normalized”, since normalization occurs over time and time as we know it no longer exists. For all memories, we remember them with the same intensity of pleasure they occurred at; for all interactions “after” death we experience only the energy of goodness/God/whatever you want to call it, and are in a sense “unaware” of any normalization. All good is simply experienced as good.

3b. I would say my beliefs are closer to the definition of your description of “far-eastern religions such as Buddhism” than they are to many types and sects of Western religions.

Lobsang: Even if you believe that your loved one won’t see your gestures of respect, you may still want to give some sort of expression that you did love them. Whether said loved one is aware of it or not need not be a deterrent to grieving in your own way and expressing to others/the world/”God”/yourself that you did love them and will miss them. If you want to visit his grave and refresh the flowers there, no harm is being done, so I see no reason not to.

Also, I imagine if “God” did create humanity but didn’t incorporate theism, “he” figured the ability to reason was more important/central to our definition of self. Since there is no way in this world to prove/disprove his existence, having that idea implanted would violate our systems of reasoning, thus we would believe our entire system of logic to be inherently flawed and reject it. (I’m not saying it is perfect as is, but without any solidly implanted notions we have much more confidence in it and use it more frequently than we would otherwise.) We were given free will, and thus the license to develop beliefs on our own. Whether they will be corrected, verified or simply perpetuated after death is any living person’s guess.

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1b Atheist: Do you wish [there were an all powerful and Good God]?

It’s impossible. I supposed a good god of some kind would not be unacceptable, but an all-powerful god that allowed its creation to exist in this state would be anything but good.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?

No such thing; consciousness is physical in origin, and death, by definition, ends it. Depending on how one reaches the end, the penult might be painful or not, but death is the end of feeling, as well.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.

They are equally incorrect. I think some myths are more beautiful than others, but that’s all.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.

Darwin was brilliant, especially in the way that he respected the limits of his knowledge. Dawkins is also brilliant, but he could learn that one thing.
This is, of course, just my opinion. Unlike many atheists, I accept that my conviction is no less a matter of faith than the reverse. Some of the things I don’t believe in, of course, have rational arguments against them, but not all.

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Atheist.

Sure, why not? I suspect a world ruled by a truly benevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would be far different from the world we lived in today. No real death, no suffering, etc., etc.

Oblivion. No one can truly comprehend it, because it’s impossible to imagine the subjective experience of non-existence. To have a subjective experience at all we must exist. To come close, think about how you felt at the time of the French Revolution. That’s probably what being dead is like.

I think they don’t strain credulity as much as the western monotheisms. As far as I know, which isn’t very far, there’s a lot of superstition attached to Buddhism as practiced. In principle, parts of Buddhism seem to me as much a philosophical attitude as a religion. But there’s no more reincarnation than there is heaven.

Darwin is one of the greatest scientists of all time. That’s true whatever your beliefs are. Dawkins is a great writer and explainer of evolution. I’m reading The Blind Watchmaker right now. Of course Dawkins isn’t anywhere near Darwin’s league as a thinker, as I am sure he’d be the first to admit. Most theists hate Phelps. Jerry Falwell certainly does.

Of course I respect those dead persons whose life I admire. Why wouldn’t I?

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1a Theist: Do you think most atheists wish there were a [n all powerfull and Good] God?
I doubt it, though probably some do.

2a Theist: What are your feelings about people who are convinced they won’t burn in hell because there is no such place? (Assume their belief is as strong as your belief that there is such a place)
Who says I do believe in such a place? And, they are grownups and may believe as they wish. We’ll all find out who was right eventually, even if by not finding out at all.

3a Theist: What is your imagination of what heaven is like? How does heaven deal with the human tendency to normalize all forms of pleasure? (how does heaven deal with the phenomenon whereby the novelty of all good things wear off. If heaven is eternal)
In my faith system, there are several levels, but in the one we’re hoping to go to, one gets to learn everything, for a start. I figure that will be pretty interesting.
**
4a Theist: Give me your opinion of the Phelps family.
**I do not understand why you put in this question. Did you really expect anything other than “they are despicable and hateful people”? Could you at least post a question that would be an interesting discussion? Atheists have many opinions about Dawkins, but there are about 10 people in the world who think the Phelps family have anything good to say, and they are Phelpses.

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1a Theist: Do you think most atheists wish there were a [n all powerfull and Good] God?

I’m not a mind-reader. Probably some do, some don’t.

2a Theist: What are your feelings about people who are convinced they won’t burn in hell because there is no such place? (Assume their belief is as strong as your belief that there is such a place)

Their business. I would hope that they’d still strive to live virtuous lives, but I don’t think the reason why they do so (or don’t do so) is relevant.

3a Theist: What is your imagination of what heaven is like? How does heaven deal with the human tendency to normalize all forms of pleasure? (how does heaven deal with the phenomenon whereby the novelty of all good things wear of f. If heaven is eternal)

You’re confusing “eternal” with merely “forever”. It’s not like after a long time in Heaven, it gets boring, because time itself would not be meaningful in a truly eternal Heaven. An eternal being exists in all times at once.

4a Theist: Give me your opinion of the Phelps family.

I pity them. With as much hatred as they have consuming them, I don’t think there’s any chance they can find happiness, fulfilment, or anything else positive. Some will say they should go to Hell; I’m not convinced they’re not already there.

I should point out, by the way, that just as belief in an afterlife does not necessarily imply belief in a deity or deities, so too belief in a deity or deities does not necessarily imply belief in an afterlife. I should also point out that belief in an afterlife does not necessarily take the form of Heaven and Hell. So questions 2a and 3a might fall somewhat flat, for some respondants.

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Lobsang, you may want to switch “Phelps” for “Jerry Falwell” or “James Dobson.”

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1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
Of course not. I’d be a theist if I did.

2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
I believe your consciousness either drifts or is abruptly cut off, at which point your awareness and “you” essentially cease to be, because the body organs and cells that sustain it die.

I don’t think anyone can comprehend with any certainty what it feels like to die, and even if people could, I don’t see how their beliefs would make any difference. I imagine everyone wants an easy death, preferably one in which they’re not suffering, so I don’t see how being an atheist or theist would make you envision a more or less pleasant death process.

3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
I think they’re like Christianity in that they are searching for an existence beyond what they have now, either out of a fear of death or denial that this is all there is. Except they can do it without God. I have some hope this would make people who believe in God ask themselves what this says about the necessity of a God figure in their faiths and the origin of things held to be inspired by God, such as morality.

4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
They were people whose thoughts on this topic more closely agree with mine than Fred Phelps’.

Atheist: How do you respect a loved-one when he or she dies? I ask because My step-father died last year. Logically I know he’s gone and therefore not capable of witnessing the gestures of repsect those that outlived him feel compelled to undertake (myself included) And it’s not possible for him to ‘feel proud’ or ‘glad’ of any good I do. But I still feel like it’s right to, for example, visit his grave and refresh the flowers there.
I believe such gestures are largely something people do for themselves, out of the belief that the deceased can see them or is there with them. These are comforting thoughts that lessen the sense of loss you feel.

As for how to respect the dead, you do that by living in ways you know would make them happy or proud. I’ll invent a beloved deceased aunt for this purpose. If my dead aunt always wished I would dress girlier and not take shit from people, then I’d try to stand up to her when my bitchy coworker makes some snide comment, and I’ll reconsider that pink dress I saw at the mall. I’d do it because I know it was something she wanted me to do, and I recognize it could benefit me. And of course, I’ll think fondly of her, and correct anyone who says nasty, untrue things about her. When it comes to respect, I do not treat dead people much differently than I do living people.

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1b. Eh…while some sort of heaven for the good and hell for the evil might be nice, I also have to consider what kind of “good” god would have to be responsible for the world as we know it. By my humble observations, he’d either have to be a sadist, or an absentee landlord. (Or perhaps just incompetant)

2b. Well, obviously, I can’t know for absolutely certain, but…I’m pretty sure I’m fucked. Bam. Lights out, universe ends. The same thing that “happens” to an active computer program if you take a sledgehammer to the machine.

3b. Same thing as I think of Christianity. Or Zoroastrianism. Or the cult of Anubis. Metaphysically meaningless. Comforting delusions, at best. But hey, whatever floats their boat, as long as they don’t get in my (or anyone else’s) way.

4b. Scientists. With interesting, and likely true or seemingly plausible, ideas.