Atheist.
No, why would I want to subject myself to the arbitrary judgement of someone whose motives I don’t understand and who might destroy me as part of some “greater plan”?
There is no soul. I will feel nothing, nor will I care about feeling nothing. There will no longer be a “me”.
Show me the evidence. And there certainly IS an alternative to this existence – non-existence.
Darwin was a pretty sharp guy. Who’s Dawkins?
Well, you can wish something were true even while not believing it (and, indeed, even while believing it to be false). I wish the next bag of potato chips I open contains five hundred bucks in cash. I’m going to go ahead and say I know it won’t.
Well, I can cause the change in myself and become a theist. I cannot cause a change in another object or person.
1b Atheist: Do you wish so? Nope, not even a little bit.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die? Nothing. The “soul” isn’t separate.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence. Not much.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins. I haven’t read Dawkins, but Darwin was an ok naturalist I guess. Seem to recall hearing that others were likely to notice natural selection if he didn’t.
No, I think humans only have true free moral agency if there is *no *god. Godhead implies control, whether overt or covert, but control. If we were created by an all-powerful being, then we cannot behave other than the way were created to. The idea that we can behave as we were made to and still be held accountable for the result is outrageous. I’ll accept responsibility for myself only if there’s no god. Otherwise what is, is his fault. (I was tempted to say its fault, but the kind of being I usually hear described could only be male.
I don’t believe that living things, including humans, have a soul. We are living beings, and when we die we simply are no more. I’ll try to answer part two of the question this way: many years ago I had a surgery in which I was put under anesthesia for about three hours. When I sleep, even deeply, there is always an underlying sense of myself, of breathing, of being. Under that anesthetic, I was awake one instant, and an instant later three hours had passed. I was in a recovery room. I had no sense of being at all. It is as near as I can come to the sensation of being dead. No dreams, no consciousness of any kind. If I had actually died I would never have known it. But as the anesthetic was being administered the sensation was one of euphoria. I hope that’s what dying will be like. As to after death . . . I’ll leave that to the theists.
The last part of that question interests me, if an atheist may have a go. I have referred to heaven, as I’ve heard it described, as the eternal ennui. Can there be anything more boring to an active mind than continual bliss with no problems to break the monotony? Living people are driven nuts by boredom. Why does anyone think that an eternity of gazing upon god would make them happy?
I suppose the idea of being satisfied with your existence has merit, but I don’t subscribe to any of the “after-life” propositions. If some kind of universal justice existed, I think we should strive for it here and now, not hereafter.
I’d like a shot at this one, too, although I am an atheist. In my opinion, forgetting an aspiration to heaven, anyone who aspires to be human should despise Phelps and his clan. I don’t know any theists who do not hold them in utter disdain. They certainly do not represent most christians. Even those christians who hold the same belief regarding the damnability of homosexuals do not pursue them, abuse them, and picket their funerals. The whole Phelps clan are a boil on the ass of the world.
Darwin was a scientist whose work made believers in christian philosophy take an uncomfortable look at life on this planet. They didn’t much like what they saw. Good for Darwin. I’ve only recently become aware of Dawkins, and haven’t yet read his books or heard him speak. Consequently I am unqualified to comment. I understand he gets in christian faces and pisses people off. If that’s true, I compliment him.
Theist, as if the answers don’t make that clear.
1a - No, I don’t really think so. We all of us tend to seek out points of view that support what we already believe. If someone desires a God figure, he’s likely to seek out confirmation that such a figure exists, and find it. The opposite is also true.
2a - I hope they are right, because I don’t have any desire for people to suffer eternally. I certainly don’t know what’s going to happen after we die, and I’m not going to get in anyone’s face and pretend I do.
3a - My ideas about this are not terribly well formed, but I’m hoping for an end to struggling. It seems like I struggle constantly - to do the right thing, to carry on in the face of the garbage that life throws at us, and to love people in a real way. I think heaven will be a place where there will be no more dodging garbage, and doing the right thing and being loving to everyone will come naturally.
4a - They’re idiots, and meaner than sin. Doesn’t everyone think that? I can’t remember who said it, but somebody once said that no one is responsible for all of the people who claim to follow him. I think that applies to God, too. Think about the last time a person you can’t stand expressed a devotion to someone you admire. Made you feel a little icky, didn’t it? Well, it’s not the admired person’s fault. Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and again. That’s sort of how I feel about the Phelps clan. They make me sad, and angry, but they don’t make me not believe in God.
Oh, phooey. God is not a cosmic vending machine, and you don’t always get what you pray for. Anyone who tells you that praying harder and having more faith will always get you what you want is a) ignorant of what the Bible actually says, b) in deep denial, or c) selling you something. I don’t think your comment was meant in earnest, but that stupid idea is a bit of a sore spot with me lately. And if I’m coming across as tetchy, please know that I don’t mean to.
I’m not sure what you mean by respect. My parents both had funerals. They were both believers. I loved and respected them both. But I only visited my mother’s grave once, with my sister, a year after Mom died. My sister and I stood at the crypt for a few minutes, when my sister said what we both were thinking. “Mom isn’t here,” she said. “She’s been with us all the time. We don’t need to come back here again.” And we haven’t. I still think of my mother frequently. What would she say about this or that? My relationship with my father was not as warm, but I loved him. He was cremated, according to his own wishes. I guess you could call it respect; he had always said that he wanted his ashes placed in the Willamette River in Oregon, in a specific swimming hole he had swum in as a boy. My brother and I took his cremains to Oregon several months after he died, and put most of them in the river just as he had asked. At the last minute we got the idea to sprinkle a few ashes over his mother’s grave. I think Dad would have liked that Idea.
In the intervening time between Dad’s death and my trip to Oregon with his cremains, the box with the cremains sat in the trunk of my car. No disrespect intended. It was a box of ashes. Dad was no more in that box than Mom was in her coffin. They were both just gone. What I did was not because I had any belief in either of them looking down (or up) from anyplace. It was just the fulfillment of a promise. They are both in my mind, and when I die, for me at least, they will be permanently gone, as will I. That’s just how it is.
Hm. I read the question as being “Do you wish God existed?” rather than “Do you wish you were a theist?”. And I do wish God existed (it’s not something I’m actively pining for, but, yeah, I would prefer it to be that way), while all the same believing adamantly that he does not.
Incidentally, I can’t will myself into being a theist, no matter how strongly I try, no more than I could will myself into believing the moon was made of cheese. I can’t willfully change my beliefs on anything; they do change, when I’m presented with evidence or reasoning or other external influences, or when I undergo various internal changes, but it’s all beyond my direct control.
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
I can’t even conceive of a world where there could be a god. Would she answer all prayers? If she did, the world would be an insane place. Only select ones? Why, what would be the reason some prayers would be answered? What would be the purpose in having a god? Why do we need one anyway? We seem to be rubbing along fine.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
I don’t know. No idea. I don’t think we get lifted up to a heaven. That’s just absurd. But no, I don’t know what happens when we die. The strict atheist part of me says “everything just stops” but recently I have been questioning that somewhat. I don’t have my mind made up about how it feels to die, either. Guess we’ll all find out!
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
I think that they just were farther along the path that I have been thinking. I used to be certain there was nothing after death, and then I had an epiphany of sorts and am not certain at all. I think Buddhists, and others, have just taken this one step farther in trying to envision what actually happens. I don’t think they’re right. I don’t think anyone could be right. But there is a certain kind of logic in their thinking.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Darwin was amazing but not extraordinary in his thinking. Dawkins is being needlessly preachy and abrasive. I’ve read a couple of his books, and while I do agree with what he says and think he’s a scholar and a deep thinker, I think the more attention he gets because of his atheist views, the harsher he gets with those who disagree. This alienates. I don’t think atheists need more alienation…
I’m not arrogant enough to presume I know what other people think when they don’t tell me.
… what if I’m one of the people who’s convinced that I won’t burn in hell because there is no such place? It’s not a part of my religion in the first place, and I don’t go around co-opting chunks of other religions’ theology so as to be more successfully rude to strangers.
I don’t personally have an imagination; afterlives are stunningly, overwhelmingly irrelevant to my thinking, and I’m of the, “I’ll believe I know what it’s like there when someone comes back and tells me. Otherwise, I guess I’ll find out when I’m dead, but I’m in no hurry.”
Scary, scary freaks.
I’m not sure whether or not I’m qualified to answer this question, as my religion has no particularly strong theology on the origin of humans to play with, but:
I don’t think that my gods particularly value belief. They value people working towards an orderly, healthy, stable universe, maintaining good relationships with each other and with the world, and similar things in general. In specific, They value particular actions or traits.
An atheist who is good to their relatives, is friendly with the neighbors, puts in a little volunteer work, avoids a life of crime, and pays their taxes on time is doing just fine without belief, so why be concerned with it?
1a No. I know one who wishes he could have faith because he sees that his theist friends find it comforting, but that’s one; he apparently found it comforting when I pointed out to him how many people find their own faith scary, not comforting. I know many more who don’t have any such wish.
2a Theist: I don’t believe that being atheists means they will burn in hell, nor do I believe that having a different vision of God than I do will take you to hell. Dunnow, should I have any particular feelings about this?
3a Theist: I’ll tell you when I get there… my more-theological interpretation is hard to translate into words; it’s sort of a unity with God/Love only without being absorbed into Him… my less-theological picture is from a joke a friend told me, where there were all these rooms that people could roam through and celebrate Him in different ways. To me, Hell is when you reject God/Love - God doesn’t send you to Hell, you send yourself (this links with the concept of infinite mercy).
4a Theist: Who?
1b Atheist: Hell no. I like the universe just as it is.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?: The same thing that happened to it before we were born, or happens to a program when the computer is shut off. The interactions of brain cells that are our thoughts just stops. And no, since by imagining it I am putting myself there, and there would be no me to be there to imagine it. I don’t think it is humanly possible to imagine ourselves dead - but I’ve been under anethesia twice, and I can’t really imagine that either.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
They don’t seem evil, but since they have no evidence of their assertions, they are just as wrong as theistic religions.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Not exactly comps, are they? Darwin was amazing - since he got so much right such a long time ago. I haven’t read Dawkins’ atheism book, but I’ve read most of the others (working on Ancestors Tale now) and I think he is damn frustrated by the creationist types who must write to him, and lie about his words and those of other biologists. Really, all he is asking is that religion is not given special consideration, but it drives people nuts.
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
Not sure. It would be handy. But it wouldn’t be the Christian god - it would be much more accessible and useful, like a robot monkey butler.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
Nothing. The ‘soul’ is a function of our physical consciousness. When I die, having been knocked unconscious/fainted a few times, it will be like that: I will just switch off.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
While fundamentally Buddhism doesn’t teach of deities, in practical terms Buddha is worshipped as a god, and many versions of Buddhism incorporate animism too. And reincarnation is a crock.
That said, the philosophical lessons of Buddhism - the cycle of life/death, the impermanence of everything, and the release from suffering through freedom from desire - appeal to me greatly.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Darwin: visionary genius/opportunist whose theories have mostly been vindicated.
Dawkins: brilliant logician and writer, who is an embarrassing, counterproductive asshole in a public arena regarding religion.
It’s a difficult question. Sure, it would be great if there were an all-powerful and good (as I define good) being. But this just doesn’t rhyme with that I’m seeing around me, so there’d have to be something seriously weird going on for that to be true. I lean towards “yes, I wish so” but with caveats.
I don’t call anything a “soul” except as a poetic image, so I can’t answer.
I can’t, 'cause it doesn’t. When death is, we are not.
The same as I think of all other religions.
Darwin was obviously a great scientist that made tremendous strides and changed our perception of the universe. Dawkins I am unfamiliar with.
I don’t understand this. If you wish something were true, do you automatically start believing it is?
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
Given the various, mutually contradictory definitions of God/god/deity – and the fact that some of them are rather scary – I think this would be a clear case of “be careful of what you wish for, if there’s any chance you might get it” :eek:
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
I believe the “soul” is a side-effect of the act of being alive – sort of like the magnetic field around an electric wire. Cut the juice and there’s no field left.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
The only form of life-after-death that I believe in is the memories living people have of the departed. It’s an immortality of sorts. Actual immortality/life-after-death in the sense that something of us gets to sense it following death? Nope.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Don’t know enough about Dawkins to comment. Darwin was a scientist. He had no atheist agenda, he just called 'em like he saw 'em. He happened, IMO, to stumble upon the foundations of one of the Great Scientific Truths of our times, but I am relatively sure he never set out to achieve anything WRT god, belief, faith or any such matters.
Sorry, I was at work and answered in an unclear manner. I don’t wish there was a God. If I did wish God existed, then I couldn’t continue self-identifying as an atheist. I’d feel compelled to find a religion.
I’m sorry, but I still don’t understand. I wish I had perfect health, but I keep taking my medicines. In the same way, I can wish there is a god until I’m blue in the face, but how could that possibly make me believe in one?
Yeah, that’s the question I asked on the last page. I wish I could fly, but I’m not compelled to believe that I can. I wish Arrested Development never got cancelled, but I’m certain it did. Etc., etc.
A tricky question. On one hand, I would prefer not to die and that be it. It would also be nice to think there is someone watching out for us. OTOH, if there is a god, we’re stuck with them, for good or ill. Plus since I don’t believe there are gods, if they’re trying to make themselves known they’ve done a poor job of it with me.
Well, I don’t believe in souls, so nothing happens to them. I imagine that dying “feels” like falling asleep - in that you don’t actually remember it when you wake up. Since I don’t think there is a “waking up” part, I guess it could be a combination of unconscious/sleep type feelings, tunnel vision, gradual slowing of thought processes, that kind of thing.
Since one of my main problems with religions is my lack of belief in gods, I tend to be more open towards such religions. It depends, really; without a god, a religion usually suggests that there is less interaction between the supernatural and this plane (though not totally, of course). As such it’s harder to find any evidence for or against them; not really helpful one way or the other.
Darwin I know little about beyond the obvious. I don’t think that he himself was all that impressive, since (IIRC) others at the time were also covering the subject and evolutionary theory would have progressed without him, I think. I’m impressed that he managed to eat so many species, though.
Dawkins for me switches between reasonable and unreasonable. Generally I find his arguments well thought-through, though he does have a penchant for hyperbole. Most of my knowledge of him is from seeing him debate; I would say that he seems willing to admit the boundaries of his knowledge, though he does sometimes treat even the most reasonable opponents as unreasonable.