Theist. Mostly. Not Christian.
1a: I don’t know. I don’t believe in that sort of God either, but I’m guessing it’d be up to the individual. I’d assume most don’t.
2a: I can’t describe how strongly screwed up a belief in hell is to me; a belief in God does not imply a belief in hell!
3a Theist: I have absolutely no idea. I guess I’ll find out what there is, if there is anything, past this life when I get there.
4a Theist: Fucking crazy.
**1b Atheist: Do you wish so? **: No. I find the whole concept of a god of any kind repellent. Especially a “good” god that uses a definition of “good” that lets all of the various evils of the world happen without it stopping them. The state of the world precludes a god that I would call good, or even moderately compassionate.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die? : I believe we are just gone, and that there is no soul. Assuming it happens slowly enough to be aware of it, I expect it’s just like falling asleep or unconscious, with occasional hallucinations or other oddities, depending on how the brain is shutting down.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence. : Simply another collection of superstitions to me. Less virulent than the Islamic/Christians.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins. : A pair of capable scientists, one dead, one alive. In Darwin’s case, the discoverer of one of history’s most important and profound ideas. As well, Darwin inadvertently made atheism an intellectually respectable position, by showing how it was possible for living things, including humans, to be what they are without a god making them; by doing so he destroyed what was probably theism’s most important argument.
Whatever makes his or her friends/relatives comfortable, within reason. I, personally, have no impulses in that direction; such rituals neither comfort me, nor help the dead so the only reason for me to perform that sort of ritual is to comfort people who are helped.
Theist
1.a. None of my business. I guess some do, most don’t
2.a. Time will tell us both the truth. Neither them nor I have a way to know until then.
3.a. Heaven is communion with the fullness of God. It is not eternal, it is atemporal so no chance of boredom. Once you are there, you are complete. No novelty, no “things”, just the fullness of being one with God, which we freely chose and embraced.
4.a. Who? No idea who they are.
In a secret way yes, but they are also afraid of that, not for eternal damnation reasons but for control issues.
)
Sad, mislead by the evil one.
Perfect alignment with God the Father as His children. Becoming one with God. We will not be human as we understand it, God will clean our sinful tendencies and we will know that we will want to do the Fathers will out of love and will delight in it.
Beyond the above, and going on a much more speculative limb I would assume we will be able to help other beings, ones that God has not yet created, in other ‘universes’ again perhaps not yet created yet, as angels have helped us humans (but dead people are not angels).
Misguided, perhaps suffering demonic oppression.
I think that people do these things to help preserve and respect the memory of the deceased in their own mind.
No, I think that often they wish there isn’t a God, and that partly explains their atheism.
I don’t have feelings about them. If they are sincerely convinced that there is no God, then that is not a sin (IMO). If I am wrong and they really are going to hell, then I am sorry for them, if that counts as a feeling.
Indescribable and unimaginable. And I rather doubt if boredom is going to be much a problem.
I imagine it is sort of like an unborn fetus worrying about the inherent limiitations of life after birth, based on his experience before birth. If that makes any sense.
I know very little about Dawkins (haven’t read his book yet) but I think it is a little insulting to him to draw this kind of equivalence between him and the unpleasant Phelps.
About Phelps, the less said, the better, at least outside the Pit. DNFTPh.
Regards,
Shodan
I assume you are talking about The God Delusion. There is much more to him than that book.
His real skill is writing popular science books. The Selfish Gene is my favourite FWIW.
1a Theist: Do you think most atheists wish there were a [n all powerfull and Good] God?
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
Sure, in the absent way that I wish I could live forever or have been born with different parents, without any hope it might be so.
2a Theist: What are your feelings about people who are convinced they won’t burn in hell because there is no such place? (Assume their belief is as strong as your belief that there is such a place)
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
I think it goes where the candle flame goes when we blow it out - noplace. It feels like the part of sleep you forget. I think the part of the dying process that happens while you’re awake and aware might be terrifying and painful or might be pleasant and disarming (like I hear it is in hypothermia or opiate overdose).
3a Theist: What is your imagination of what heaven is like? How does heaven deal with the human tendency to normalize all forms of pleasure? (how does heaven deal with the phenomenon whereby the novelty of all good things wear of f. If heaven is eternal)
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
I don’t know of anything they believe about after death other than reincarnation, and I don’t think there’s anything real to that. However Buddhism and some others do teach the exploration of altered states through meditation and other means, and I think they are real in the only physiological sense that any experience is real. I’ve practiced some of these means and think they offer means to improve ourselves and help others and therefore greatly appreciate them.
4a Theist: Give me your opinion of the Phelps family.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Heros both. Sam Harris, too. And if Christopher Hitchens’ writings on athiesm are anywhere near as perceptive as his writings on politics I’d think the same of him.
1a Theist: Do you think most atheists wish there were a [n all powerfull and Good] God? I don’t worry about it.
2a Theist: What are your feelings about people who are convinced they won’t burn in hell because there is no such place? ** I don’t worry about it.**
3a Theist: What is your imagination of what heaven is like? How does heaven deal with the human tendency to normalize all forms of pleasure? (how does heaven deal with the phenomenon whereby the novelty of all good things wear of f. If heaven is eternal) You know how sometimes you are struck by a wonderful feeling that all is right with the world and you are so happy? That feeling when you are with the person you love the most and feel the most like yourself with and you never want it to end? It’s like that, but all the time and it never gets old because it’s not a purely human experience anymore. And if it’s not that feeling all the time, it’s the 100% knowledge that that feeling will be back.
4a Theist: Give me your opinion of the Phelps family. Regardless of what set of beliefs you have, teaching and sharing should be done gently and out of love to people who are open to it. They seem like the opposite.
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
I wouldn’t say “wish.” If it turned out to be so, I would adjust and deal with it. But I’m perfectly content without one.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
Poof. Gone. I don’t believe our consciousness is reborn in another lifeform, or continues in some other world. I can’t comprehend how it might feel to die.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
Hah! Funny you should mention that. I posted about my trip from Christianity, through Buddhism to outright atheism.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Darwin was a brilliant scientist. It’s a shame atheists have to own him, and (some) theists have to disown him, over something as silly as Biblical literalism. Dawkins is a terrific thinker and writer, and he’s fighting more ignorance than I’ll ever see in my lifetime, but he’s too abrasive and snarky for his own good.
Pre-question clarifications: I fall somewhere into the theist camp, but edging sharply towards the sort of thing you describe in 3b. I believe in a singular creator force in the universe (but nothing so defined as a “God” that watches us and takes care of us), believe that I will continue in some way after death, don’t believe in a heaven or hell, and find the whole concept of Jesus to be kind of weird.
Religion was nothing more than a theoretical discussion topic in my family - a complete non-issue. On my father’s side, my grandmother was raised Catholic, and attends whatever Christian church she likes wherever she is living with no concern towards denomination. She is the only one in my family (either side) that I know of that attends any sort of church, believes in angels, etc. My father self-identifies as vaguely Buddhist. My mom’s side of the family is nondescript proto-Protestent / proto-agnostic.
1a Theist: Do you think most atheists wish there were a [n all powerfull and Good] God?
Maybe some? I doubt that most do. I think that the people above that believe people are atheists because of fear or control issues are fooling themselves. Maybe because they have trouble picturing it?
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
Not in the least.
2a Theist: What are your feelings about people who are convinced they won’t burn in hell because there is no such place? (Assume their belief is as strong as your belief that there is such a place)
I think they’re right.
And I feel sorry for those who actually believe that a good person would burn in hell for not believing.
And if, god forbid, it turns out that I was wrong and a deity greets me at the probverbial pearly gates, I will freely admit my mistake and start worshipping him then and there, and expect to be admitted to heaven. On the other hand, any diety who would condemn someone to eternal torture for an honest mistake does not fit my concept of a just and/or loving god, and I’d be well away from him even in hell.
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
I have not yet decided what happens after death. I do believe that I will continue in some form, whether you call it energy or a soul.
*4a Theist: Give me your opinion of the Phelps family.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.*
Only one of those that I’ve heard of before this thread is Darwin, whom I respect as a very smart man. Evolution absolutely exists, and it amazes me that so many people still deny its existence, as there’s nothing about it that I can see that disproves the existence of a god.
I can’t answer that question as worded. I would say most atheists wish and/or hope on some level that there is goodness, and that in some fashion the principles of how the universe works, or at least of how cognizant social creatures can function, line up, or can line up, or can be made to line up, with that goodness.
Some atheists do not.
I would assume that if those that do saw within that description sufficient reason to use the word “God”, they would be using the word “God”.
I do not think atheists wish they were not atheists.
Why would you assume that I believe there is such a place?
OK, I suppose in a stretch-the-metaphor sense I believe there is such a place. It’s here, in this universe, and it’s not inevitably hell although some folks make it so for themselves and for others. If someone (atheist or otherwise) does not experience life as hell, who am I to second-guess their assessment? Oh, OK, I do, because I’m opinionated, and just as I can’t help but argue if someone says Armageddon was a great movie, I have to argue with anyone who says the world as it currently stands is truly fit for human habitation.
But if you’re specifically meaning the Judeo-Christian hell of fire and brimstone into which nonbelievers get cast to burn for eternity, etc, well I don’t believe in it either. Quite the contrary. We get the nice toasty fireside-experience of basking in the light and warmth of not being intimidated by stupid fairy tales and instead trusting our own judgment!
Heaven, like hell, is here. And yes, there will be squabbling neighbors and sassy kids and cranky people with headaches and folks who just don’t like each other. And there will be slippery sidewalks and it will still hurt like hell when you fall on your kneecap. But the world won’t be organized around coercion and there will not be nations and wars, or money and poverty, and whatever cruelties and violence do persist will be random and local and personal, not organized and oppressive to human freedom.
Sad hateful head-of-family Fred who, like others of his ilk, needs a scapegoat, a THEM to be responsible for the ills of the world; sad, isolated, dominated and coerced rest-of-family who don’t have real lives. Angry vicious family who are living in hell and spreading hell to everyone they can with lots of enthusiasm.
Not at all.
Well, honestly, nothing can happen to something that doesn’t exist. You’re asking what happens to something that, as far as I can see, does not exist.
I don’t imagine there is any particular feeling involved in the act of dying itself - the manner in which the death is caused will feel markedly different depending upon how it happens.
There are things in Buddhist philosophy that make sense, like moderation and finding happiness within yourself, and there are things that are completely illogical and irrational like any other religion, like reincarnation. I don’t find those ideas any more enlightened or possible than I find western religion.
Neither one of them is even remotely comparable to Fred Phelps.
Fairies got tails? I thought the ones with the tails were the other set…
::goes off to Google Images::
Well, I’ll be damned!
mildly NTFW: www.faraonistudios.com/fairy-tails.jpg
Er, no, that would be really odd. What does good mean? Republican good? Hippy good?
I have no reason to believe anything like a soul exists, so nothing. Dieing is simply ceasing to be.
Shrug, same as heaven/hell. Show me the evidence.
Darwin: Um, he was a good biologist? His work has held up mostly intact for a long time, despite large powerful organizations doing their best to malign it.
Dawkins: I’ve read most of his books, and I agree with him. People whine about how harsh he comes across, but I just don’t see it compared to the religious extremists. Dawkins has never screamed red faced that his opponents were going to burn forever. That I know of anyway.
1b Atheist: Do you wish so?
No. At least not any I’ve heard of. They’re all pretty full of themselves. I’m kind of tired of bosses and governments and authority figures generally, and I dont think I need another one (or several, or several thousand).
2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?
I don’t think such a thing exists.
I expect death to hurt (unless it happens really fast), then stop hurting, then there won’t be anyone around to pay any attention. I can’t comprehend it, and at the moment I’m not disposed to do so.
3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.
I’m a Buddhist. I’m not on board for the rebirth part, though. As far as alternative planes of existence go, I guess maybe it’s possible, but I don’t spend any time thinking about it.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins.
Darwin is one of the greatest scientists in history. He did not come up with the idea of evolution, but he fleshed it out and came up with the model for how it occurs.
Dawkins is an engaging speaker, but basically he’s a preacher. He either believes he can convert theists to atheism, or he’s happy to preach to the choir because it makes him feel good (and wealthier). Either is fine with me. Its nice to hear a few non-theistic voices amid the din the religions kick up. But other than that, he doesn’t have much to offer (me).
Forgive me for commenting on someone else’s opinion in an IMHO thread, but this strikes me as the greatest incomprehension of the religious about atheists that there is. I’ve only ever seen this argument on the SDMB, and it has blown my mind each time. It’s just flat out wrong, and the fact that it even exists perturbs me. Furthermore, since you used the capitalised “G”, I presume you’re referring to the J/C god. Would you also say “I think that often they wish there isn’t a God, and that partly explains their Hinduism”?
**1b Atheist: Do you wish so?**No.
**2b Atheist: What, in your opinion, happens to that thing we call a ‘soul’ after our body dies? If anything? How can you comprehend how it might ‘feel’ to die?**There is nothing I call a soul. It’s all physical.
**3b Atheist: What do you think of far-eastern religions such as Buddhism which (as far as my knowledge takes me) don’t believe in a God, but do believe in something after death, and also believe of an alternative to this existence.**I don’t think about religions, except to wonder what purpose they serve.
4b Atheist: Give me your opinions of Darwin and Dawkins. I’ve heard of Darwin. Whereas, I’d not heard of Phelps or Dawkins before joining this board. (Or Jack Chick either.)
Now I’m not sure I understand you. If I wished there was a God, why would I stop at just wishing? Wouldn’t I undertake some kind of spiritual journey or something, and go find a religion that fit me? I’m not saying if I wished there was a God that would instantly cause me to believe in one. I’m saying that merely wishing there was a God seems incomplete, like wishing I was home but only walking halfway there.
I hope that clears things up. I probably should’ve originally said I’d become a theist, not be a theist.
