My city has those red light cameras on several major intersections. You know, red light cameras…Here is the short story.
I get a ticket in the mail for running a red light. Actually, it isn’t a ticket, it’s what’s referred to as a “Snitch Ticket.” There is a difference between a Snitch ticket and a Notice to Appear (a real ticket). The Notice to Appear requires you to appear in court (and gives you a court date) to defend and/or plead to the charge of running the red light. Of course, they have a picture (even a video) of the car doing it as well as a clear picture of the driver, so appearing and fighting it is rather dumb.
The Snitch Ticket, on the other hand, tells you not to call the court but to fill out the reverse of the form, including the part about who was driving the car. It requires you to send a photocopy of your drivers license with the returned form.
Snitch Tickets happen when the picture of the driver is blurred or so obscured that identification is not possible., or when there is a age or gender mismatch between the registered owner and the pictured driver.
The former is the case with my Snitch Ticket. The driver is a black blob. A blurry, featureless black blob. My snitch ticket asks me to nominate (snitch on) the party driving my car. (It honestly isn’t me driving the car)
I’m all for being a good citizen and helping the police, however, should I snitch on another person and subject them to a 400 dollar ticket for a “rolling right turn.” My researched of the matter tells me that there is no law requiring me to “snitch.” Is silence truly golden here? If I end up in court I can honestly state it isn’t me driving.
Would you Snitch on someone if it happened to you. Your child? Your wife? Your friend?
(mod footnote: I flipped a coin and this forum won. If this is the wrong forum, please move it - thx)
I would probably go to the person who was driving the car and say, “Hey, you got busted by a red-light camera in my car. If you don’t cop to this, I’m looking at being stuck with a $400 ticket and point on my license (or whatever).”
If the person has half a decent bone in his body, they will accept responsibility, and I’ll fill out the form accordingly. I would say justice is served in that way.
If they don’t accept responsibility, not sure what I’d do, other than be really pissed off at the “friend” who values their bad driving over my pocketbook and insurance rates.
I’m glad those things are illegal in Wisconsin. Even though I find running red lights repugnant and eagerly write people cites for doing so.
What happens if it’s a vehicle driven by several people (like one owned by a business) and even after a diligent effort determining who was driving at that time can’t be done with certainty. Am I correct in assuming, then, the owner of the vehicle gets the ticket? That’s how it works here when we have vehicles that didn’t yield to emergency vehicles. After we’re done with the emergency we run the plate of the car that didn’t pull over while we were on our way to the emergency and tell the owner that they either tell us who was driving or they get the ticket. The law allows for this.
Do mailed red light tickets go on ones driving record? Or are they more like parking tickets (a fine but no record).
If they go on the driving record, what if the vehicle is owned by a company and not an individual? Whos record does it go on if no driver can be determined?
$400 is pretty step for a rolling right turn on red. I’d have to check my bond book but I believe it’s $260 here after all court costs and fees.
It’s $374, plus a few fees added to help the courts in a time of economic trouble (40 bucks), plus driving school- probably another 80 bucks. - or so I’ve heard…
Yes, a company car with multiple drivers and no clear way of identifying the driver would be a problem. Pretty unfair to fine an innocent person merely because it was their car.
@ Ravenman. Would you do the same if it was your wife?
Of course. Not a moment of question in my mind. Why wouldn’t I? I know for a stone-cold fact that my SO wouldn’t want to leave me in hot water because she made a mistake while driving and got busted for it.
ETA: I am curious about the legal basis for enforcing the ticket if it cannot be shown who was driving the vehicle. It seems to me that the constitutional basis of holding someone to account for the fine if it cannot be determined to any degree of reasonableness who was actually driving the car at the time would be very questionable. However, that legal issue does not in any way effect the fact that if I loan a car to a friend or SO, they are implicitly taking responsibility for how they use the vehicle.
Just to be clear, if you don’t snitch, the fine falls on you or do the courts just give up on it?
If I borrowed somebodies car and the got caught running a red light, I’d certainly want to pay the fine myself rather then have somebody who presumably was doing me a favor lending me the car then have to pay 400$ for their trouble. I think anyone who isn’t a total jerk would feel the same way, and if the person was a total jerk and asked me to not snitch, I don’t think I’d have a problem ratting them out anyways. Cause, hey, they’re a total jerk.
On the other hand if not snitching meant that we’d dodge the fine all together, I think I’d let them know, and unless they had some moral problem with not paying the fine, I’d not snitch.
While the OP specified he wasn’t driving, in the majority of cases I’d imagine the owner is the driver. Which means they are asking people to fill out a form to incriminate themselves as violating the law. Which makes me wonder about 5th amendment issues. This form is asking if the guy did a crime, and “I plead the 5th” is usually a perfectly valid answer to that question.
As it stands, with the snitch ticket, the courts are NOT involved. The company that runs the red light cameras are trying to ID the driver so they can issue a Notice to Appear. In fact, the notice they send clearly states “Do not contact the court.”
A) The police don’t know that it wasn’t the OP driving. Thus they have no basis to argue the 5th amendment wouldn’t apply.
B) This isn’t JUST about the ticket. The 5th amendment allows a person to not incriminate themselves in ANY wrongdoing. It is possible that, in some situations, admitting to who was driving could implicate someone in a crime themselves. Granted, they’d probably be rather far fetched situations, but it is possible. So do you know every law in the country well enough to be absolutely positive that the OP answering this question can not be used a proof of some other wrongdoing? If you don’t, then the 5th amendment can still be a valid reason for refusing to fill out the form.
Remember that you do not have a right to drive. It’s considered a privilege. Couldn’t they just say, if you don’t comply, we’ll revoke your driving privileges?
I realize that. My point was that there is a situation where the law cannot force you to testify on another person. I actually thought that’s what was being referred to in post #4.
